1. A $20 ODSC-ADV membership is now available as an alternative to the standard $65 ODSC-OFTR membership, details via the JOIN button
  1. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Admin Edit: This discussion was from 2008.
  2. MichaelSchorpp

    MichaelSchorpp Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    I have a comment/suggestion regarding mandatory OFTR membership. I realize this topic has been flogged to death already, but I was thinking of an amendment to allow owners of adventure touring bikes to get full club privelages without having to pay the OFTR fee.

    My understanding is the present $10 limited member fee is just for trial purposes, and cannot be renewed after a year. Also it doens't allow full posting rights (correct me if I'm wrong here).

    My reasoning is that owners of BMW GS or V-strom type bikes(how don't own other trail machines) would almost never ride trails, and so it's not reasonable to make them pay the OFTR fee.

    Looking at the ADV rider site, its apparent that many adventure type bike owners have migrated there to avoid paying the $50 fee. The advantage of allowing them to join ODSC for a reduced rate would be more money in club coffers, as well as making the club more inclusive.

    Mike.
  3. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    The ODSC makes 0$ from the $10 fee. The $10 covers insurance/admin etc. We have structured the fees to keep it as cheap as possible, using Corp. sponsors and events to make up the rest.(financially we don't directly benefit from more $10 members, we don't lose either - it's about break even) I would love to get this club perceived as Adventure riding oriented(it is in reality, but the perception doesn't seem to be there) How do we go about this?

    There appears to be a lot of misunderstanding regarding the OFTR fees and What the OFTR is actually doing for everyone(including the adventure riders). There have been a few rumblings about some of the adventure guys not wanting to pay them. Interestingly enough, almost every single Ontario adventure ride thread I've seen(here and elsewhere) has involved using road allowances, cottage trails/roads, rail trails, logging roads and snowmobile trails, etc. in some amount or another............This directly involves the OFTR. The OFTR isn't just about singletrack.
    The only way someone can honestly say they don't need the OFTR is if they only ride on maintained(year round) Provincial and municipal roads 100% of the time. Anything less than that 100% is involving the OFTR.
    What I find really interesting is the guys that have $20,000 invested in a KTM or BMW etc., another $2,000 in gear and they feel $50 towards the OFTR is out of line. It may be safe to say that probably 90% of those guys are riding in areas that involve the OFTR, even if it's just 20-30 Km per year.

    Should they pay the $50??

    Ken H. will be speaking at our AGM in Feb. He will also be speaking at the OFTR AGM (not sure of the date yet)
    All the adventure guys really do owe it to themselves to hear what he has to say and then answer the question above.

    Food for thought.

    We'll put this on the AGM Agenda

    BJ
  4. allan68

    allan68 Limited User

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Well stated...
  5. Neil Edmunds

    Neil Edmunds ODSC Executive

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    As it stands now, the separate $10.00 trial user fee no longer exists. There wasn't enough interest in it to offset the additonal management work. You are either a Limited User or a club member. There is not that much difference between a Limited User and a club member when it comes to this site. This difference has been reduced over the last few months. More of the website has been opened up and changes will continue to be implemented.
  6. grahamm

    grahamm Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    oh.... and its the 20-30km /yr that makes it all worth while :mrgreen:
  7. OrangeKoolaid

    OrangeKoolaid Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Neil

    Can you clarify the $10 trial membership ? for me. I will be purchasing my OFTR / SCORRA Membership but still wish to be a ODSC Member, so can I do this $50 OFTR, $30 SCORRA & $10 ODSC so that I am in good standing with all the clubs I wish to be affiliated with.

    Don

    PS is that Beg ready to ride yet, I am waiting for our annual Ganny Ride??? and time is ticking.
  8. Neil Edmunds

    Neil Edmunds ODSC Executive

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Don,
    There is no trial fee anymore. It is just a $60.00 combined fee (oftr+odsc) or in your case a $10.00 additional club fee. Thus your total would be 50 oftr + 30 scorra + 10 odsc = 90

    The Berg is apart undergoing some extra engine modifications.
  9. MichaelSchorpp

    MichaelSchorpp Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Interesting comments.

    After reading this thread I took a look at the ODSC membership list. There is something like 1036 combined full and limited users. Does the "limited user" label indicate that the user is not an OFTR member? This doesn't quite make sense, I recognized alot of the "limited users" as having hard-core enduro bikes who are currently active.

    Mike.
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    The Limited User could be an OFTR member. Just not an ODSC member.

    BTW you can also join the OFTR without joining a club. Still costs $80 but the full amount goes to the OFTR (rather then the $30 going to a club).

    Maybe the Ontario members of ADVRider could start a club/organization that is about dualsport riding and thus be able to bring your concerns that affect your sport to the OFTR. If, as Brian has stated, dualsport riders needs (or at least some of them) are looked after by the OFTR then you should have a voice to the OFTR and vice versa.
  11. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Many Ontario members of ADVRider have already discussed the idea of a club and are not interested in organizing one at this time.
  12. MichaelJlobodzinski

    MichaelJlobodzinski Limited User

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009 - MY HONEST OPINION

    As a very active member of the ADVrider community, and former member of the ODSC, I wouldn't mind chiming into this topic.

    Allow me to first explain why I'm no longer an ODSC member - about two years ago I purchased the $50 membership and went on one organized ride (the Fall ADAR). David really worked his ass off at that event, thus I feel I got my money's worth; however-much I know the money also covers a multitude of administrative and OFTR fees. Alas, I quickly realized that my interest's are better aligned with longer distance style riding - covering a rather specific type of terrain (more on this later). It's not to say the ODSC doesn't cater to this segment, it's just that there isn't much activity on the Adventure Riding thread within the ODSC (2nd least active thread among the "General Threads").

    In regards to covering a "specific type of terrain", this consists of gravel roads, logging roads and non-maintenance roads. I've tried to find more info on the OFTR site that specifies their involvement with respect to this specific type of terrain - to no avail. By all means please enlighten me. Henceforth, I would gladly pay the fee - as I believe in their interests.

    Alas, when it comes down to justifying the $50 OFTR fee, I can see how many "ADV" riders consider it inapplicable - as the terrain covered by the OFTR umbrella overlaps 0% of the terrain your typical ADVrider will cover. Now, let's be honest here, there have been times when a rider finds his/her way onto an unknown system of trails. More often than not, they're looking for a way out - as the 450lb bike they're on is way too much for that trail.


    With regards to the ODSC and the OFTR, I respect their mission statement and look forward to a heap load of enduro riding this summer when I pick up a woods weapon. Having said that, I will certainly purchase a membership. In the meantime, the adventure riders shouldn't be confused as non-conformists; it's simply a different niche segment of the sport.

    By the way, some "Adventure/Rally Style" events could certainly bolster new memberships - wink wink, nudge nudge




    Now... anyone have a 525exc they're selling for $2500??


    Michael
    AKA: Uber-Moto


    P.S. I may very well join as a "corporate member" within four weeks time. Rally Raid 2009 sound like a good enough reason!
  13. SteveP

    SteveP Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Hi MIchael. Great post. Just wanted to clarify that this club did host or have involvement with three Dual sport rides this year, which I believe had some semblance to what you described. Those would be the Mazinaw DS route(was new this year, and pretty darn challenging), The SuperSunday DS route(great intro type of ride) and the very well organized All Day Adventure Ride organized by David Van. Hope you consider joining next year and I want to know more about Rally Raid 2009!!
  14. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Very well put, Michael. If you look at this objectively, the logical place for you and your buddies on the Adventure Rider Canada Forum to post is the ODSC Adventure DS Forum. You have a huge thread going on ADVRider that I find difficult to follow and that could easily be numerous threads on the ODSC Adventure forum. Many of the people in "your group" are/were ODSC members and I think they moved to ADVRider partly because of the OFTR-mandatory membership and partly because ADVRider is "cooler".

    One of your group - OntarioGS - tried to get the previous ODSC webmaster to realign the Adventure Forum here to be more suited to the needs of the "Big Dogs", but he felt ODSC didn't support his request. I think that his request should have been pursued further and it would have been successful., in fact, if the posts your group make on ADV Rider Canada were in the ODSC Adventure Forum it would then be the most active forum, rather than the least active :wink: .

    I'd support a separate class of membership at ODSC for "non-trail riders" if that would encourage the large Dualsport bike riders to return to ODSC, except that we already seem to have that in the "Limited User" class. (Limited User? Some of them have several hundred posts).

    Why not give it a try for a few months and bring your buddies from ADV Rider here as LImited Users? It seems to be free like ADV Rider.

    Bob
  15. SteveP

    SteveP Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Come on folks, keep chatting it up....we have our exec meeting this weekend....and this is a very important topic to be tabled. We are looking at new possibilities for next year. We are not opposed to beefing up the dual sport side as best we can.
  16. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    There were actually 5 ODSC organized dual-sport/adventure rides this year:
    The 3 that SteveP mentioned plus the Port Perry to Bethany ride and the Ride for Sight.

    As I mentioned:
    Ken H. is currently involved with several initiatives involving multi-use trails and is actively involved with the Ontario Trails Council. Many logging/access roads/rail trails go directly though places like Simcoe county, Dufferin County, Northumberland, Haliburton Highlands, Ganaraska, The Kawarthas, Larose etc. Ken is currently involved in active discussions/actions in all these areas.

    For example:
    Many ADV guys rode the PD ride this year - most of that was on trails/fire roads etc. that are right under the OFTR's mandate, now - or in the future....

    It's best if you talk to Ken directly, or come to the ODSC AGM- it can be better addressed there....

    BJ
  17. Neil Edmunds

    Neil Edmunds ODSC Executive

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    Limited User means limited functionality (not restricted quantity of posts). Members have the PM function, Limited Users don't. There are a few other conditions regarding topic creation. The ODSC forum is accessible enough that non-members can learn what we are all about. They can also use the forum to buy or sell bikes and gear.

    The ODSC forum is popular, you will notice members from other clubs posting here.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    ADMIN EDIT: Dec. 14, 2009
    At the fall Exec meeting, it was agreed that Limited Users would be given PM capability (reduced amount compared to members). This has been implemented.
  18. MichaelSchorpp

    MichaelSchorpp Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    I'm still not clear on the definition of a limited user. Is this how it works:

    1. Limited user pays $10 for forum access and PM's. Not a member of OFTR.

    2. Limited user is member of another club eg SCORRA, pays the $50 OFTR and their $30 club fee. Joins ODSC for $10 and is classed as a limited user here?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    ADMIN EDIT: Dec 14, 2009

    A Limited User pays no fee and has access to most of the ODSC forum including a limited amount of PMs.

    An ODSC/OFTR Member pays $60 to the OFTR of which $10 comes back to the ODSC via transfer payment. Members have full site functionality.
  19. SteveP

    SteveP Ride Organizer

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    a limited user may or may not have paid a fee to the oftr or other affiliated clubs, but they have not paid a fee to this club. Hence, limited user.
  20. Neil Edmunds

    Neil Edmunds ODSC Executive

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    Re: ODSC fees 2009

    For 2009 OFTR membership remains mandatory, thus your fee is $60 (50 to the OFTR and 10 to the ODSC).
    You join the ODSC via the OFTR by paying them $60 and they send $10 to us (by way of a transfer payment several times during the year). Through the OFTR you can join several clubs at once, but the amount of the fee that goes to the ODSC is still only $10 (you must join by submitting your fee to the OFTR since the OFTR is handling all regular membership processing for 2009).

    In 2008 we offered a Trial User membership for $10, but this no longer exists. This was intended to be a way of providing more forum access for those who only wanted more forum access. There wasn't enough interest in it to justify the extra work of keeping track of this additional membership type. So for 2009 you are either a full ODSC/OFTR member OR you are a non-paying Limited User.

    The club executive remains commited to supporting the OFTR. Many dual sport/adventure riders don't see the benefit of supporting the OFTR. This is understandable as most of the OFTR's focus is aimed at land access for trail riders. Many of the areas that the OFTR concentrates on also have road allowances and rail trails. Keeping these passageways open benefits all riders. The higher visibility of motorcycling that the OFTR creates through it's work is important.

    Ken Hoeverman of the OFTR will be speaking at the ODSC AGM. This is a great opportunity to find what the OFTR is doing on the behalf of all riders. I suggest that anyone who dual sport rides or adventure rides should come to the AGM and ask questions. Ken is too busy to spend time answering questions posted here. He is keen to talk to groups since this is a more efficient way of using OFTR resources.