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  1. Toastman

    Toastman Limited User

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    Due to the government not listening to the farmers' pleas for support they have rallied together to close sections of trails that run on farmers' land. Farmers do not get any financial recompense for the use of their land and have clean up each spring to attend to. There is not a beef with snowmobiles, quads or the ODSC - but they need the government to hear their plea. Some snowmobile clubs are on board to help out but I'm sure there will be angered individuals.
    To my understanding once the current farm crisis is dealt with full access to trails will again be allowed.

    I had an interesting conversation with the head of one organization behind the latest move. He expressed a concern about noise and trail damage. I explained that the ODSC attempts to tread lightly and is not looking to get stuck on a regular basis unlike some other forms of off roading. He was also concerned about noise levels which was the perfect opportunity for me to showcase my new FMF Q pipe. :D I also explained how the ODSC does noise testing and polices their own members.

    Farmer income is at a record low. Corn today sells for less than $2.60 a bushel. It was over $4 a bushel 30 years ago. Add in inflation, skyrocking production costs and unfair foreign subsidies and you can quickly understand why farming in Canada is a dying industry.

    Would you work for less money than you made 30 years ago?

    Donald
  2. LE CAPITAINE

    LE CAPITAINE Limited User

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    Yet another case of a miss placed protest.

    Don't get me wrong I am very simpathetic towards the family farmers plight, but why target a protest at the people that even if all their numbers protest to the government they will have little or no effect on the problem. Don't ask others to take up your fight, take the fight right to the ones that can invoke change.

    If you want to get the attention of our wonderfull members of parlament how about the farmers taking their tractors and creating a grid lock around the parlament buildings from 6 am-9 am and from 4 pm till 7 pm where the MP's are all working everyday and do this everyday for a month. This will make every MP and their staff very aware of the issues that face todays family farmer when they have to leave for work at 4 am to get there for 9 am and leave at 4 and get home at 9 pm everyday for a month.

    Just an idea and of course this is IMHO.
  3. RL

    RL Limited User

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    "Farmer income is at a record low. Corn today sells for less than $2.60 a bushel. It was over $4 a bushel 30 years ago. Add in inflation, skyrocking production costs and unfair foreign subsidies and you can quickly understand why farming in Canada is a dying industry."


    That's why I'm not in the Farming Bus.
    The Farmer is paying for the governments policy(mainly USA) for cheap food. The Canadian Government can not compete with US subsidies and Canadian farmers are either walking away or with the few left today are starting some grass root protests such as denying access to there land.
    What would happen IF you walked into the grocer and the shelves were empty......is that what it's going to take before someone listens to the plight of Farmers. 100 years ago farming drove the economy and paid just as well as today for crops, but inflation has gone up how much???. Now it seems nobody cares as the grocer is still well stocked.
    We are very :!: removed from were are foods come from.
    Consider that the average age of Farmers is nearing retirement age.......says it all.
    Would I deny access in protest.....YOU BET

    My rant for today
  4. Miker

    Miker Guest

    A friend of mine has 50 acres and it's mostly heavy woods. There is a section that runs along a riverbed and has a fence (to keep animals in/out). He put up a warning sign that the fence exists and a no-tresspassing sign. It'a tin sign, and regularly snowmobilers are manaully hauling down the sign and smashing the fence.

    Too bad SOME people are like that.

    Was this a related comment? Sorry, it just popped into my mind on how some are responsible and it's the few that aren't that paint the picture.
  5. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    I can sympathize with farmers, but this protest will do nothing for their cause. It sure won't make the front page (if any) of the local newspapers. John Q Public couldn't care less about snowmobilers.
  6. RL

    RL Limited User

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    Would you rather the Farmers block the Food distribution Centers of the Major Grocers.....could easily be done. Do that for a couple of weeks then see who is crying. Point is Farmers are trying to protest in the least disruptive way for now. If no one listens then such a senerio could play out.
    For now it's this plus protests in Ottawa.

    Some private land owners with forestry lands have done a similar protest using the OFSC trails over high property taxes.
  7. LE CAPITAINE

    LE CAPITAINE Limited User

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    Yes Richard, this would cause major food shortages in the grocery stores, this could lead to civil unrest, riots over food. It would also cause financial hardship for the grocery distribution center as well as the grocery stores, this could lead to several closing, costing thousands of jobs when they are not doing anything wrong and have little ablity to change things.

    This is again targeting the general public and the grocery industry when neither of them are to blame or can invoke change.

    Target the government, they are the ones that can make change, limit their ability to get to and from work, get food, spend time with their families, cause them major distruptions, this is the only way that farmers will win public support and get the attention of the PM's that can do something about their situation.

    Again this is just my view of things.

    wes
  8. RL

    RL Limited User

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    Wes
    I won't disagree with you at all!!
    It's just a matter of how far do the protests have to go before someone listens.
    Your Quote "It would also cause financial hardship for the grocery distribution center as well as the grocery stores, this could lead to several closing, costing thousands of jobs when they are not doing anything wrong and have little ablity to change things."
    This has been the plight of Farmers and the industry for decades and still know one seems to be listening.

    I don't wish to see the grocers empty of food but if new young farmers are avoiding the industry who is going to produce the food at least in domestic terms....we could just be reliant on cheap subsidized imports.
    Either way the consumer must/will pay one day.
  9. LE CAPITAINE

    LE CAPITAINE Limited User

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    Richard,

    I guess the point I am trying to make is that farmers should be targeting those that make the decissions and not the public first, if that doesn't work then yes an escelation of protest needs to happen.

    But I do agree with you that something needs to happen. Many feel that running out of oil will be one of the biggest concerns in the near future, but one thing we all seem to be ignoring is the fact that we only have a fixed amount of land we can grow our food on. I can walk or ride a bike to where I want to go, but I have to eat.
  10. Barry

    Barry Limited User

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    Is this truely an arguement over farm business, or over the land use for the trails??

    I cannot see it based on farm profit, as that has been an issue for years, as previously stated, crop prices have not risen, but fuel, insurance, fertilizer, equiptment, land, and even a box of cerial has. More so I think it maybe if some ingonrant people take and leave the trail, possibly casuing land damage, and leave trash to be picked up in the spring my the land owner, in this case its perfetly understandable for a landowner to close a trail, why deal with the hassle for no benifit??
  11. gybeman

    gybeman Limited User

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    The benefit sure doesn't repay them for their generousity. They usually get a free trail pass if they have sleds, or some discounts from OFSC supporting vendors. Even in my area where winter wheat is planted and it is signed to stay off the field you can see several tracks where guys have travelled off the trail (where there was groomed snow) to cut the corner off.
    Ignorance by some once again ruins it for all. Not too many people look or care to see where the US or South American toxic sprayed fruits and veggies come from either. I watched in disbelief this summer when some working executive type mom with kids bought a styrofoam wrapped package of corn, in the middle of local corn season when it was everywhere, even in the same store. Probably so she wouldn't break a nail husking it.
  12. Barry

    Barry Limited User

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    Free trail pass... farmers could be so lucky... my cousin near Drumbo gets a bottle of maple syrup, as the trail goes across 2 or 3 fields... my other family is too far south to catch the trail system (no snow windsor way).

    Mmm stale grocery store corn... I learned not to buy sweet corn from the grocery store last year... I got spoiled growing up on a farm with freash stuff.....
  13. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    I think a major part of our troubled farms is they cannot compete with the massive farms in the states. When I say massive, I mean HUGE! The fields are the size of large counties.

    Just like Home Depot killed the "mom and pop" hardware stores.
  14. Jeep-Livin!

    Jeep-Livin! Limited User

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    I dont understand why Canada doesnt recognize the farmers plight and lock the border down and seal our agriculture within Canada for Cdn farmers to sell at realistic prices.. Would be a moderate price hike, but we'd prosper within our borders.... A dream that makes no sense in the big picture, but a dream just the same.

    Just like arab oil prices affecting our costs at the pump when we have more than enough oil within our borders to take care of 2 Canadas.The US caps thier nat gas wells because Canadas nat gas can be bought cheaply so they save thiers..... and pay less than it costs to pump it out of thier ground.

    Why does Canada, who has such vast resources, give everything away?

    If Canada locked down ,many countries would be in trouble.

    Too bad our economy doesn't reflect what we really have.

    Our farmers shouldn't be kicked by the wayside....Subsidies yes....BUT, to the ones who really need it. Filthy rich farmers get in the same lines as the poor ones when money is given away..... The ones who, if they sold out, would be worth millions..... The poor ones should get a big chunk on down to the wealthy ones.....in a perfect world I guess.

    I hope something happens that gives them a bit of a boost overall though.
  15. DM

    DM Limited User

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    The real problem is the Euro and USA farm subsidies, plain and simple. You can't get what your product is worth on the open market if your competitor is selling cheap because they are paid too.

    ...and since I earn my living analyzing the oil/gas industry;

    On the Arab oil/cost at pump issue, this is the common belief, but you couldn't be more wrong. Saudi Aramco, is OVERPUMPING their wells to keep the price down, as they are very worried that these prices will make coal liquifaction and gasification economically viable.

    There are huge fights within Aramco (Saudi Arabia's state-owned oil company) over well depletion issues. The internal engineers are really worried that these high flow rates at the Ghawar wells will damage them.

    True, we have tons of oil-sands oil, but without major $$$ injections from around the world, we can't afford to get it out. Our conventional oil wells are declining at about 5% a year, and our comsumption is going up. And, OPEC members are pumping full tilt - who wouldn't be at $65 USD, so they are NOT causing the prices to rise.

    The way the price of oil is set, is one of the most open, honest and democratic processes in the world. It is an open market with sellers and bidders. If the bidders think the price is too high, they don't have to bid.

    Bottom line: if we locked down - WE would be in big trouble.
  16. MxTrack

    MxTrack Limited User

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    My family has been in the farming industry all their lives. I would say do anything you can to get the government to change things even if its effect other people like snowmobiles and grocery stores.

    There is no new farmers coming into the industry and the older farmers are retiring with less then what they had 10 years. The farmer may be lucky to make money off the value of his land but that is about it.

    The worst case I have seen lately was when the MAD COW was around. The prices of beef did not change what so ever in the grocery store, but for a farmer to sell it to the market was peanuts. Farmer had to put their cows down because it cost them to much to feed them then to sell them to the market.

    There is a huge expense for the farmers. Think about all the equipment that he need to buy to operate his business. Tractors, trucks, combine, feeder, spayer, planter and etc.

    Farmers are getting the bad end of the stick and If the farmers can't get the local public on board farming is doomed.
  17. RL

    RL Limited User

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    Connie is right farming is doomed
    Our government treasurey can not compete with the Americans.

    So what does this mean for trails
    Well according to the farm papers expect the Snowmobile trails to stay closed through the '06-'07 season across Ontario where crossing farmers land. (more so now after the lack of monies from the Ont. Gov.)
    The OFSC is endorsing this protest (they really have no choice) and this will have a major impact on rual economies next winter.

    Also expect Farm protests to kick up several notches with less monies coming from the Ont. treasurey.
    There is talk of shutting down food terminals but in any case expect interruptions.
    Many Farmers will not have the funds to plant this spring and with corn prices still declining from over supply it's looking like a lot of farmers will have time on there hands for protesting.

    Just note; if you invested $1million dollars and lost 20% or more each year on your capital how long would you rough it out. Farmers seem to be internal optimists with the "odd" good year but the bank is now running dry. Costs keep rising incomes keep declining. How would you like to take a 20% pay cut each year (with the odd bonus thrown in once every 5 yrs) and inflation growing at over 2-3%....how long would you last?????? The Farmers plight for the last 20 years plus
  18. DM

    DM Limited User

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    It's not just a problem here. African farmers are being destroyed by the EU and USA subsidies. Just recently in Asia there was a conference to work this out, but the EU - mainly led by France will not relent, and the rest of the world is ticked. Canada was on the right side at those meetings, so punishing our governments doesn't make sense.

    I really empathize with the Farmers, but closing trails, and hurting others who survive off the short snowmobile tourism season is not going to do a thing to help. Why punish your neighbor for something they are not responsible for?
  19. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    Exactly. Only thing they will accomplish is losing support from local businesses that will lose revenue from the lack of snowmobile tourists. Sledders spend a lot of money in the local economy which the businesses would otherwise not get during the slow winter months.

    The sled industry is already hurting; slow sled sales, high insurance rates, high price of fuel, lack of snow, etc. Myself and many others I know got out of the sport years ago for the above reaons. I'm sure the locals have already felt the drop in revenue and this will just add to it.

    There must be a better way.
  20. MxTrack

    MxTrack Limited User

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    What does the local farmer get from the snowmobiles and the OFSC for using their land for trails? Nothing

    What does the local business do for the Local farmers? Nothing

    What does the local Farmer do for the snowmobiles and the OFSC? Give them free land to use for their trails.

    What does the local Farmer do for the local businesses? Grows food for the restaurants, grocery store and etc.


    I would have to say that there is way more snowmobiles then farmers in Ontario. What is wrong with snowmobile take stand and support the farmers that provides the land for them to have a trail . Either way you look at it if the snowmobiles don't support the farmers they will lose their trail anyways because the farmers lost their land to the bank.