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  1. weekender

    weekender Limited User

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    Can anybody provide more info on the Great Pine Enduro? All I can find on the OCMC website is the date (Sept 28). Would like to know the registration times, key time, and cost.

    Thanks.
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    I am sure my link will be removed so get the info while you can :roll:
  3. weekender

    weekender Limited User

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Thanks for the link :)
  4. Revin

    Revin Limited User

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Can someone please clarify which rules will be used at the Great Pine. It is unclear from the entry form what will be used.
    See below the new rules as posted by the CMA.
    Basically it says that the organizer has the option to use these new rules, but all 2008 "National Enduros" will use the new rules...

    Q-74 - NEW
    Organizers may elect to operate their event using the following modifications to the rules. When this choice is made the information must appear on the sanction application, the rider entry form and given at the riders' meeting.

    Q-74(a) Q-44 is modified as follows.
    Flip cards will be visible to the riders before they enter the check point.

    Q-74(b) Q-49(b) is modified as follows.
    Special test times can be added to the route time lost for the rider's total score. Test times are to be calculated to the second or better. Test times are not just tie breakers; they are part of the overall score.

    Q-74(c) Q-51(b) is modified as follows.
    Riders may arrive early at check points and wait for their due time before crossing flags and checking into time control.

    Q-74(d) Organizers operating events in the National Championship Series in 2008 must use these modified rules.
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    I heard that the Great Pine will be using the old rules.
  6. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    According to the organizer, Arnie Buchanan, it will be old rules.
  7. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Both the Great-pine and Mini-pine enduros need to use the old rules because they use the Ganny.
    The forest is still open to other users during the event, so they can't have bike ripping thru the doubletrack at crazy speeds. The old rules help ensure that.

    I will see about getting the route sheet posted here on Saturday.

    BJ
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Why would you be ripping through the ganny at "crazy speeds" with the new rules any more then the old rules? If you have the skill level to stay on your minute you will do it under any rule...and if you don't have that skill then you will be ripping through the Ganny at "crazy speeds" regardless of the rules.

    This is more likely old school vs new age thinking by the organizing party.
  9. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    I have spoken to the OCMC organizers and that's the way it is. If they want to run an enduro in the Ganny, it's old rules, or no Enduro. Simple as that. Has nothing to do with 'Old school thinking'.
    Having ridden both types, there's way more incentive for the majority of riders to ride slower on double track under the old format. And it works that way in reality.

    BJ -tries to get informed before speaking.
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    I have also ridden both formats and I have also heard a qoute from one of the organizers of the Great Pine..."the only way to run an enduro is with the old timekeeping rules"

    Maybe what you were told is just a "reason" to keep the old rules. Or maybe what I heard was just someone reacting to the situation.

    Matt - Is always informed before speaking
  11. Canadaler

    Canadaler ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Not true because:

    a) under the new rules there is no incentive to keep time...in fact many will not even have timekeeping equipment with them. How do you even know if you're on time or ahead of it? Fact is most people don't know what minute they're on until they hit a check.

    b)it simply doesn't happen in practice. If you can arrive early at a check...you'll be on the throttle the whole time.

    c) people who don't have the skills to go fast in the technical sections only go at "crazy speeds" on the fire roads and 2-tracks where you are much more likely to run into other forest users. The "old" rules severely penalize you for this...the "new" rules do not.

    Luckily, happily, for the first time people actually have had a choice this year between old rules, new rules,...it's all good. You might like one type better than the other...but so what? Now you have the choice between them, which we've never had before. I suspect it will be this way for at least another year or two...so enjoy! I doubt it will last forever.
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    But you are forgetting about the novice rider that has to go all out 90% of the time to not hour out. So ther are ppl doing crazy speeds at both events.

    True there could be be more with the new rules. But there will always be ppl burning down the double track to make up time. I guess the difference is whether you have 30% or 80% of the entrants going too fast.
  13. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Matt-

    Perhaps you should argue your point with the forestry committee that oversees the ganny......
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    I am not arguing....I am discussing.

    Do you have an official document from the forestry committee on this topic? I think that would really help eliminate any confusion.
  15. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Crash,
    I don't have a document, or a need for one, just a conversation with Arnie in the spring.

    I don't see where there is any confusion. Mini-pine and Great-pine are old rules(no confusion there). OCMC organize them they decide what's best and have stated their reasoning(no confusion there either), that's good enough for me.
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Well the person you spoke with is also the person who was heard saying what I quoted. So I guess we can agree to disagree on why the OCMC has chosen to use the old rules. I guess it looks that I am as informed as you but have a different opinion.....
  17. ScottyR

    ScottyR Limited User

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    At the Beagle Bash we had known check ins, and NO ONE sped down the roads as there was no reason to.

    If OCMC is not going to use the known check rules, then the event will NOT be a National Enduro like it is advertised.
  18. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Even tho' the current CMA events are advertised as 'National', they really seem more 'provincial' or 'regional'.

    They really aren't 'National' until they start drawing lots of guys from out West, the East and the US and have good sized purses(to make the travel worthwhile and that a pro can actually make a living at it). We shall see.....

    I still enjoy them all the same, new rules or old rules. I don't timekeep anyway, I just go ride.

    BJ
  19. ScottyR

    ScottyR Limited User

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    I know at least 6 guys who have told me that they are not going to the GP this weekend unless they are using the same rules as were used at the Beagle Bash.

    No one wants to keep time anymore. The US National Enduro Series has proven this. 200 riders max to 400-600 at every event since they changed the rules.
  20. Canadaler

    Canadaler ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Re: Great Pine Enduro

    Now...just to add fuel to the discussion...what rules are the Primrose being held under?

    Whatever...debating whether the "New" or "Old" Enduro rules are "best" is kind of like debating whether KTM is better than Husky or Yamaha. Its subjective. Better to be happy that you have the choice of "brands" than nothing to ride at all...and it wasn't that long ago people were talking about the total demise of enduros in Canada.

    In the end, market demand will pick the "winner" between these formats, just like in the US and elsewhere. No doubt the "old" rules are going to go the way of dual shocks. Look at it this way though...maybe (perhaps probably) this Great Pine will be the last chance you ever get to ride an enduro under these rules. Something to tell your grandkids about..."yeah sonny...back in my day we walked barefoot uphill through the snow to get to school, had to get up to change the channel on the TV, worried about scratching our records and got penalized big time for being early at a check #-o