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  1. bruno

    bruno Limited User

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    Yesterday was the first ride with the bike since I had the tailpipe modified to quieten it down abit. It's is definitely quieter than stock and still has the stock appearance (no ugly downspout). I was riding with two other guys from HORRA, one of which also had an 06 400EXC. They both commented on how much quieter mine was. It's not a very scientific test as I have not had it measured with a sound meter and Cycle Improvements couldn't give me a definitive answer as to what the db was.

    I'm pleased with the result and would recommend anyone with a 400/450EXC to get this mod done.


    Bruno.
  2. erussell

    erussell Limited User

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    Tell us more. What Mod is this as I don't keep up on the KTM side of things as much as I should? I guess I'll see it tomorrow but I guess others are interested in what they can do to quieten their own bikes.
  3. kelsow

    kelsow Limited User

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    Please do tell as I'm thinking my Husaberg pipe should be similar to your KTM one. Not that my bike is loud but every bit helps.
  4. 400 KTM Pilot

    400 KTM Pilot Limited User

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    What did ya get done,, and did CI do it. My 06 400 EXC is way too loud. My 01 tested at 95 db, and my 06 tested 101 db... not acceptable.
  5. RL

    RL Limited User

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    Just buy a 2T like the KTM200 or 300...then you need not worry about being LOUD :D ...dang 4Ts :x
  6. Klinkster

    Klinkster Limited User

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    I had started this with James and John 2 months prior to the OFTR tech session. It took them quiet a while to develop the changes to the pipe. I have both my 400 and 250 modified. The 400 was on the dyno before and after and the mod looses less then 1 hp. It still pulls hard, I was hoping a log and cracking wheelies with no problems.
    I have not sound tested it yet but while out riding this weekend Jenn and I were able to come within 50 feet of 8 deer on 6 different occasions.
    I believe Cycle Improvements is charging $130 for this. You can contact John for more info at 1.877.KTM-BIKE Toll Free

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  7. allan68

    allan68 Limited User

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    noise

    I'm not sure what they were using to do the sound tests @ the North Humberland Trail Ride on the weekend, but all bikes seemed to be blowing really big numbers.
    My 200, with a hardly used stock pipe, blew 96.
    I saw a 2004 EXC 200, stock pipe blow 100, and
    I saw an SX 200 blow over 107.
    These readings were all @ about 1/2 maximum RPM's.
    I don't know anything about the meters themselves, but they were measuring from about 2 ft. away @ an angle to the right of the bikes. Basically the same way, I've seen most tests done.
    Last year @ the MADD ride my '01 WR 426 blew 93, with a modified (a little louder) stock pipe. I know my EXC is quieter than that bike.
  8. Fat Tire Flyer

    Fat Tire Flyer Ride Organizer

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    I'll have to agree with "allan68" about the high numbers at the NHF Trail Ride.. I had no idea
    how many decibels my stock xt225 would blow.. The tester said that I peaked at 95 dbs :roll:
  9. John Baxter

    John Baxter Limited User

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    And this makes it interesting as "Katie" recorded 91 at the NTR and 94 at the Mini Pine and the rpm was definately higher at the NTR.

    As part of my job I test sound pressure and reduce noise of machinery. Small changes in instrumentation and microphone angles, distance, wind etc etc etc makes large differences.

    This is a very good step to make us all aware of noise issues but an exact noise test, these checks surely are not. I am still wanting to pull another couple of dB from Katie but remember 3dB about halfs the noise, it gets very difficult to reduce the quieter we get.


    I am inclined to do a "proper" calibrated test soon to compare.

    So, as regards myself, QUIET is waaay better for us all!
  10. bruno

    bruno Limited User

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    Yes, I got it done at CI after hearing about it at the OFTR Tech Session in January. From talking with John at CI, he told me that they did some mods to the internal chamber, which helped reduce the noise at low rpm and came up with an insert which reduces the noise when on the pipe. Everything is internal, so the pipe look stock. Beyond that, they didn't go into specifics. Like Stephen said, if you would like more info, call CI and talk to either John or James.


    I was out riding with Eric Russell this weekend in Goderich and the bike was noticeably quieter.


    Bruno.
  11. Detour

    Detour Limited User

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    Between here and there.
    Interesting read here:

    http://www.thumperfaq.com/sound.htm

    dB, dBA and dBC are all different and as such be careful what the meter spits out. The reference should be A weighted, what we hear, C weight is more animal hearing levels and plain SPL dB is the base fundemental of sound, don't really want to get into it here but as noted in the read the test clearly calls out dBA. Going further into the read above, it lists test results to that specification, A weighted.

    My bike, 95 dBA for a 04 450 EXC and at last years Midsummer Dream ride I blew 94 dBA, mind you many things make it subjective, but who was I was to argue.

    Now from memory, long time since been into this, the deduction/addition to move from SPL dB to SPL dBA, through the bands is
    -26,-16,-9,-3,+0,+1,+1,-1 and adding the bands together is not straight forward as it is more a variation from adjacent bands adding 0 1 2 or 3 dBA depending on the difference of the two being added. As an example SPL 94 dB at 2' free field would A weight to SPL 89 dBA 2' free field. There is a dramatic reduction to the threshold at which we hear things and more importantly to the test standard.

    What does all this mean, make sure the test meter is dBA Slow Responce. A simple setting on a sound meter will result in variations that would not be correct.

    Please, I am all for a quiet ride and looking into the option of making my ride quieter. Throttle control, consideration of the area I am riding in are constant considerations, that and keeping myself out of the rhubarb. :?
  12. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    I hate to sound like an arrogant prick, but this data sucks. It’s of no real use as the sample size for every model shown is way too small, and even then, the variance is off the scale.

    There has to be critical information missing here.

    Please take these results with a large, artery hardening, grain of salt.
  13. Klinkster

    Klinkster Limited User

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    Bill, your right, it does suck.

    There are 2 stationary testing methods.

    Both are measured 20" from the exhaust at a 45deg angle, A weighting, slow response.

    The CMA method, points the sound meter at the bike and at a engine speed of N=306000/stroke in mm

    The SAE J1287 method points the meter away from the bike (reduces wind noise from the exhaust gas passing over the meter) and at an engine speed of half throttle.

    Now, this is where it starts to get interesting. Do you know what the stroke of your bikes is? Does the sound tester? Do you know what half your engine speed is? Does the sound tester?
    Most likely not.
    Now, with the SAE J1287 method, a guide is provided listing most bikes with the proper speed to test the bike at.
    CMA Method - I am still trying to get more information :( .....

    The difference in the position of the sound meter with the 2 test described above will result in about 2dB-A at the same engine speed.

    Chances are you will not get tested properly or constantly as most tester are not properly taught or don’t have all the information they need.

    I won’t even bring up the lack of calibration of sound meters.

    Now, the MTO testing method is so much different you wouldn’t believe. ANSI/SVIA-1-2001 Basically it is: Microphone 15 m from bike, bike is tested while moving, in second gear, half throttle open to be at full throttle at test point. Limit, actually suggested limit is 82dB – there is no limit for noise for off road motorcycles coming in to Canada!

    Stay tuned, as many of you may already know I am working on a Sound Advice flyer for the OFTR (just weighting to go to print). I am also putting together a new page for the OFTR website about sound. And if things allow, an education guide for clubs on how to test.
  14. Klinkster

    Klinkster Limited User

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    PS - The American standard is SAE J1287 and bike manufacturers and after market quiet pipe manufacturers work towards 96 dB-A using this method. So, do you think you will ever pass a CMA test for 94 dB-A that is conducted properly?
  15. Klinkster

    Klinkster Limited User

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    Take a look at this.

    http://www.mic.org/members/membership/STMTABLE85-05.pdf

    Read the fine print at the bottom, * not certified to meet federal EPA noise regulations for newly manufactured motorcycles.
    Now, look at all the stars.

    How can we ever ride quiet bikes when the some of manufacturers don't even sell them to us this way?
  16. shawn DRZ400s

    shawn DRZ400s ODSC-OFTR Member

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    less noise = ?

    Well it seems that we aren't the only club with soud issues. I guess this is hitting the entire province hard this year. I've been out to watch a few mx races recently. All four-stoke bike have a PLUG inserted in the tailpipe. This makes the bikes much quieter.
    From what I understand 2-stroke bikes don't require them, making them now louder than the 4-strokes! But don't quote me the rules, I don't know them? Most guys seem to be using 4-strokes so it seems all bikes have these plugs.
    I know if you are too loud you get pulled off the track, maybe even disqualified?
    Big issue at the track, nobody is happy about it, bikes run like crap, have to be jetted, loss of power, sounds not as good. I know most riders are against this rule and some have even opted to no longer participate!!
    People are also having issues with the sound meters, how it should be done, are they calibrated, should it taken from close to the bike or the property line?
    I know the 80cc bikes didn't require a plug, likely because they are 2-stroke. To me they actually sounded louder than the big bikes.
    Generally I wear ear plugs at trackside, now there really isn't a need.
    I'm not sure if this is an isolated case at this track from this club taking the initiative or if it's provincial/national.
    THe club is Oshawa Competitive Motorcycle. I could not seem to find the link to their site from our LINK page??...so here it is:
    http://www.ocmc-racing.ca/
    I know they have a link to the ODSC from their LINK page.
  17. Klinkster

    Klinkster Limited User

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    If the people with loud pipes don't want to play, then send them home. At least everyone else will have a place to ride.
  18. DaveJ

    DaveJ Limited User

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    Re: less noise = ?

    If those guys are serious about racing, they will learn to tune their bikes properly with the plug in or switch back to a 2 stroke. Lots of other motorsports have restrictions that mechanics have to work around, why should this be any different.
    When I go to the track, I can really hear the 4 strokes at the back but not the 2 strokes. Seems to me the uncorked 4 stroke sound carries a lot further. Either that or there are so many more 4 strokes that they drown the 2 strokes out.
  19. Bart

    Bart Limited User

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    Please be careful to read all of the SAEJ1287 carefully before paraphrasing it onto web pages etc. The test is NOT at 1/2 throttle, nor at 1/2 max hp rpm etc variants. It is at 1/2 max bmep rpm as reported by the manufacturer to SAE. Please note that some of the manufacturer's reported numbers have been favourable to us in terms of passing the test when one would expect (or calculate) higher test rpms and their hence higher measured dBA's. If that isn't available, there are fall backs like the clause chosen by CMA of a bore and stroke based rpm calculation. If you go back to the club days before the forums, there were some pretty in depth emails describing the technical stuff. A major step of progress from those days is at least now people are often willing and able to mention SAEJ1287. Read the sections about tolerances of measurements too. It will deflate some shoot from the hip type statements that tend to also float around. I'm always glad to hear about people being interested in getting their bikes quieter.

    Bart
  20. Klinkster

    Klinkster Limited User

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    Bart - you bring up some interesting information and points.
    I wasn't really sure how the MIC got their test RPM.

    It seems as every one has a diifferent RMP to test at though.

    SAE suggests 3 different speeds, engine with the gearbox in neutral at a speed equal to one-half of the rated engine
    speed or competition bikes at 306000/stroke in mm or 250000/stroke in mm for 4 strokes and 200000/stroke in mm for 2 strokes
    CMA suggests 1/2 the manufacturer's recommended max engine speed or 60% engine speed which maximum horsepower is produced or 306000/stroke in mm
    FIM is clean cut and suggest 1 test RPM only, 330000/stroke in mm

    Some interesting note from the FIM rulebook are

    Always round down meter reading, that is : 103.9 dB/A = 103 dB/A.

    Meter Corrections
    Type 1 meter : deduct 1 dB/A
    Type 2 meter : deduct 2 dB/A

    Example a bike test at 96 dB/A using a type 2 meter, you would deduct 2 dB/A from the reading. So the bike would really be 94 dB/A


    ----------------------
    *The Radio Shack meters are not type 1 or type 2
    ----------------------

    I am trying to figure out which is the correct direction for the microphone.
    SAE J1287 and the CMA are different, the FIM doesn't specify.

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