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  1. shawn DRZ400s

    shawn DRZ400s ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Why can't the tree huggers do something usefull, like stopping the damn 407 from going through to hyw.115? Much more worthwhile cause!
  2. gybeman

    gybeman Limited User

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    This is the same guy who was brought in when the Kawartha rail trail issues where being discussed. It is surprising that there is even a trail study group by a university. He was brought in then by the council and the green groups to help sell their green adjenda. About the only sense that was stated from the meetings I went to was from the OFSC spokesperson who said they had just spent about $8000 to cutback the undergrowth in areas to even keep the trail open. It would take a lot of hikers to make a path and keep a trail from growing wild.
    Surely the local guys from GPTR or NTR are representing themselves as I've read previously that W. Thaxter presented to them in other meetings.
  3. KnightRider

    KnightRider Limited User

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    exactly go there tonight, let them know we wont sit back and watch them tear up much more land to build "infastructure" without giving us a piece of the pie! I would seriously go tonight if I could but I have a family member in the hospital I need to be with. Its great that we have people to represent us, but volume speaks action, the more that can show up the better, pack the room
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I am assuming that the OFTR will have a major representation there tonight??
  5. RL

    RL Limited User

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    John Marsh was the one that did the Ganaraska Forest Study several years ago and was instrumental in allowing us access to the Ganny.

    Guess over the years the Greenies have been looking after him quite well.

    Since the Gany and Northhumberland are VERY similar in composition it would seem a matter of time before the Ganny is the next target based on this study.
    One thing is fore sure POLICING a forest closure is about impossible unless someone is going to throw a LOT of money at the situation....money that could be better spent on trail maintenance... YES :evil:

    It is all hypocritical :(
    The Greenies contribute to paving over the GTA for there own self interest but hear a motorcycle in the forest and it's the end for nature.

    GET F%$#@$#@ING REAL

    Also remember, as was with the Ganny, many many years ago these areas where literally DESERTS with sand dunes and HUGE erosion channels...so even with our use today, there is NO comparison to yest er years.

    Maintain/manage the forest cover (or it too will burn to a crisp) and keep the recreation as a side economic benefit PERIOD
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    From the article:

    ..... "soft impact users like hikers, skiers and horseback riders.

    Right.

    OK.

    More drugs please.
  7. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Richard, do you have John Marsh's contact information? I'd like a look at the particulars of that study.

    I'm not convinced that it did not have a specific outcome in mind before it started and I'd like the opportunity to scrutnize their methods.

    For instance, did they just assume that ORVs (in particular dirbikes) are higher envrionmental impact than say 700KG horses and all their piss and crap, or did they actually determine that from experiments and samples?

    Ditto on the detrimental effect on funa and flora.

    I want to see the data collected, the methods used for analysis and the supporting citations used in drawing the conclusions.
  8. Shawn Hall

    Shawn Hall Ride Organizer

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    As a new member of the Northumberland Trail Riders this is what I know.

    Bob Kennedy (OFTR Member) will be in attendance. He is our representative on the forest advisory commitee.

    I don't believe Kenny H. will be in attendance.

    Warren Thaxter is out of the country riding somewhere nice and warm. Nevada I think.

    Many other NTR members will be is attendance in the evening.

    So what do you say guys do you want change the location of our meeting tonight to the Alderville Community Center. I'll drive.
  9. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    I'd almost guarantee that 'study' had a predetermined outcome before it even started. In effect, it was probably nothing more than a mission to gather evidence that only supported their predetermined outcome. AKA propaganda.

    Suggested questions to ask:

    Who funded the study? What is their agenda?

    What makes Marsh & MacPherson 'Trail Experts'? When most OFTR members likely have as good or better understanding of trails and ecosystems than they do........

    Why are all the 'endangered' flora and fauna thriving despite motorized use? Did they consider that they may be thriving Because of motorized use?

    Why are trails that only compose .25% to .5% of the entire land area such a threat? The entire premise of destruction is ridiculous.

    Why ignore the 'Ganny' model of successful, sustainable multi use recreation area?

    Why are they NOT trying to work WITH conservation minded groups such as the OFTR?

    Who do they hope will police the forest if it closes? Who will pay? It will require 1/2 dozen officers 24hrs. a day.

    Why are they focusing so much on a few trails when if they were really serious about land destruction they would focus on the GTA? Or is it really because this looks to them like an easy fight and makes them feel better about themselves if they remove groups they don't like from the forest?

    BJ
  10. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    I found it.

    Here is an e-mail I just sent to him:



    IF I get anything back, I'll post it.
  11. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Here is something VERY interesting:


    From a study done in Montana

    Here is the abstract:
    In other words, both Horseback riding and hiking cause more erosion than off-road motorcycles!!!
  12. Shawn Hall

    Shawn Hall Ride Organizer

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    Great stuff Bill!

    Keep it comming.
  13. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Here is a picture of a hiking-only trail in Tennesee. Soft-impact my rectum!

    Attached Files:

  14. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    It is good to see that OFTR etc will be at this North Humberland meeting. I see this issue the tip of the iceberg. It looks like soon I will have to drive out 5 hours from Toronto to go for a ride through the forest.

    I will meet with my MPP tomorrow and will try to keep it the kiss approach (keep it simple stupid). My main reason for visiting him is to get a date (and or information to follow proper procedure) for the 2008 ride down to Queens Park (with hopefully more than 2 Dual Sport riders).

    2nd just briefly bring up the issue of Green to Blue Plate,

    3rd briefly bring up the issue of "no standing on pegs" law.

    4th Land issue ... North Humberland quickly comes to mind.

    Basically the ride to Queens park, in what ever capacity that it happens, would be to show MPPs who we are, and what our concerns are (those issues above).

    PS nice article in Inside Motorcycle page 57 "Shame and Guilt" Jan 2008 issue.

    PSS I just don't understand how soil erosion in any capacity that I have ever seen, can be so detrimental. Am I missing something? It is not as if the whole forests are trails... there are trials so many feet wide that occupy likely less than 5% of the land (even taking into consideration of the soil erosion). I have seen horrendous soil erosion on land that no one has ever walked or motorcycle ridden before. Anyway it is something I just don't understand. Maybe someone could shed some light on the issue, of how big the issue actually is, what are the problem etc.
  15. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Another interesting study:

    Here is the summary:
    So, if we produce much less impact than ATVs and other ORVs, why are we always lumped in with them?

    As I go through these studies several things are becoming apparent:

    1) All outdoor activity causes an environmental impact
    2) Horseback riding seems to be the most damaging
    3) Motorcycles seem to be the least damaging, and that includes hiking!
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Great stuff Bill....as usual.

    Not to be an OFTR hater but why is Ken H not going to be there....is it not his job?
  17. arejay

    arejay Limited User

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    morons

    Horseback? Horseback? One horse down a trail does more damage to the trail than 100 ATV's.

    Just beause it;'s an animal does'nt mean it's enviromentally sound. Obviously the idiots who came up with all this sit behind a desk and dont have a friggin clue what goes on in the woods.

    This is just like the government setting policy on issues they are completly in the dark about. What a crock. get me a violin and a shovel!
  18. Yamahammer

    Yamahammer Limited User

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    I'm kind of annoyed that this popped up without any warning...

    I'd go to the meeting but I have my kid tonight and waiting for my wife to get home. But, why would we not have heard about this meeting previously, either from the OFTR, the local gubmint, *someone*...

    Next time I'm in the center forest, I'll take some photos of the trails in the center forest. The horse paths easily have as much soil impaction as the motorized areas. The hiking areas easily as much as the two track areas, and the mountainbike singletrack easily as much as lightly used motorcycle singletrack.

    I'd also like to get some photos from up around my cottage. Areas that were LOGGING ROADS only 10 years ago. It's pretty hard to even pick out the pack anymore. You can only tell by looking up at where the tall trees are missing, but the road is now impassible even on foot after only 10-15 years.

    This is not irreversible damage. And really how is it any different that... oh say... a naturally occuring river. :roll:
  19. SteveP

    SteveP Ride Organizer

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    why do they take shots at us.....because one te250 is louder than a stampede of horses. I think they are concerned with noise and air pollution from the bikes, more so than ground deterioration. That's my two cents as to why they can take easy shots at us. The primary issue of course is that if you eliminate all riding areas, you are discriminating against an entire user group. Our gov't hates to discriminate.....there are many examples of the gov't caving to avoid the appearance of descrimination.
  20. Yamahammer

    Yamahammer Limited User

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    Yeah, I bike and hike. I truly love both. When I'm in the Ganny center hiking and I can hear a stupid loud machine way off... that pisses me off.

    Sound is a problem.

    But other than that, hikers who can't tollerate machines "just because" are idiots.

    Somebody mentioned it and it is EXACTLY true. If it wasn't for the machines, the hikers in NTH wouldn't have any trails to walk on. It takes a LOT of hiker traffic to keep a trail open (well, about as many users as motorized users). The fact is, there are far less hikers in a population than motorsports users.

    If the government outright banned all machines, the number of hikable trails would be greatly reduced. You'd only have a few areas left which would attract hikers from a wide area. And if you have the traffic density to keep the trail open... guess what, that trail will look just like a bike trail.

    Funny thing, most hikers don't really want to go bushwhacking. How many people go up to northern Algonquin Park for that pristine bushwhacking experience? Not many!