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  1. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    Very likely not.

    I am asking my Ontario MPP to help take some leadership in designating land that we can ride on and once we get the designation we can't get kicked out. I see this as being the only solution.

    The other solution which did not work is Club land ownership. I can't understand why we can not purchase our own land?

    I will state this again... maybe losing the Northhumberland will be an eye opener. It makes no sense to maintain in this sport based on the current rules this is what I see (and this is what the other side wants, for me to become frustrated to the point that I am out). So we have to work on having the rules changed. I like to see of the 25 million set aside for the multi use trail system how fast we are kicked out of that piece of the pie. Ya we might be able to ride in those trails for a while then they will kick us out.

    Rules that need to change in my opinion are
    - Have Noise laws and enforce them ... right now OPP and Police are just not doing their jobs.
    - Ontario needs to designate land that we can ride on protect these riding areas forever.
    - Change our code of ethics to a set of enforceable laws. Oh and get the OPP and the Police to enforce the laws, not make up their own.

    Is there something wrong with the government that allows recreational vehicles to be imported and sold here, but then to not have a viable policy about them? How long has this been going on? As long as I can remember and as long as I have been riding.

    Sad.
  2. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Larry- it appears there's a bit of mis-conception in what you wrote.

    The OPP etc. don't make up their own laws. Never have. Not sure where you get that idea from. They do enforce the laws written by our MPP's.
    The Police do the job they are asked to, in the priority it's required.
    Doing sound tests on ORVs is not part of what they are required to do. Never has been.
    Trying to catch a few trespassers is not high on the priority list of 'Things to do' for police forces. If they get a specific call about a few kids on uninsured bikes, they attend to it - if they can. Things like car accidents, burglaries, domestic disputes etc. get higher priority.
    We can arrange higher priority by paying for off duty paid patrols. We've done this at the Ganny for a few years now.
  3. walt

    walt Limited User

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    Are there directions posted on where this "open house" is located.
    I hope to attend tomorrow later in the evening.

    Walter
  4. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    Well I have read from this site that OPP stopped legal Dual Sport bikes from driving on Boundry road while at the same instance allowing ATV to just ride by... read this quote, you will see clearly they make their own rules, or enforce their own rules which is in essence making their own laws.

    ...."on Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:37 pm
    Two people I know went to Raglan pits on monday ,at seperate times, with the intention of riding from the pits to the Ganny and back (not riding in the pits or the Ganny) along the unassumed roads/back roads. The police were at the pits and would not allow either one of them to ride their bikes on the road (Boundry rd ?) even thought both have street plates, insurance, bike licence. The police say no bikes are allowed in the area. They also gave these guy's a hassle over their tires as they are knobbies. The riders pointed out that the tires are DOT but the police wouldn't believe it even though DOT approved is on the tires. As all this was going on two ATV's came along and the police just waved them by ! The police said it's o.k for ATVs because of a ByLaw allowing ATV's to ride on certain backroads/trails but not bikes. I've also heard that up around Kinmount that ATV's can buy passes to ride the trails but bikes are not allowed even if they are streetlegal. Doesn't sound good !!"

    The OPP do make up their own laws.

    The OPP don't enforce the laws that are out there.

    The OPP are not doing their job.

    Why do we have to pay over and above for OPP to do their job to enforce laws that are being broken. There are laws that limit the amount of sound a vehcile can make. It is in the Ontario Hiway Traffic act. Yet I have seen Cars and Bikes way way way too loud just driving right by the OPP's and the OPP's not doing anything about it.

    Really it is a joke and sad, and the whole concept works to advantage of the greens. My opinion is that the problems we have are much the fault of lack of proper rules and structure, and also the lack of enforcement of the existing rules.
  5. Randy_K

    Randy_K Limited User

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    I hate to agree with BinzerBob but.....

    SOME of the OPP do make up their own rules. I have personally been stopped and told i was not allowed in an area that the OPP do not have the authority to patrol. I spoke to Ken about the stop and it seems there had been several problems in the area with the OPP threatening people with charges that they could not even lay. The officer in question said the bikes were damaging his snowmobile trails that his club built. Turns out "his club" does not have permission to be on those trails in the first place. Other members of the police force were aware of the problems with certain officers.

    Like everything in life, you can not paint everyone with the same brush.
  6. TFB4ME

    TFB4ME Limited User

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    Yeah I’m going..Going to be difficult to maintain a positive attitude though.....WOW. The problem from what I have read and seen is the quads and trucks. Aside from that it’s the loud bikes. The quads and trucks should be easily stopped from going in there by installing barricades. The loud bikes on the other hand I have no idea. Aside from posting someone there daily at some sort of gate, how do we stop that? This is frustrating. I can kind of understand where the other side is coming from on this issue. Has everyone seen the videos posted? There are 4x4 trucks and quads tearing up the forest...WTF. we need to find a way to work with the county and land owners around there to have a quiet, peaceful and dust free lifestyle for them. With a fun place for us respectful and quiet riders alike?!
    The Opp on the other hand...Huh don’t even get me started..Look no further than their chief of Police Mr.Fantino. The Commissioner received two fines from the Cayuga Court for his failure to appear in Court. Just seems funny to me. If he won’t follow the laws why should his officers?
  7. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    I am very interested in hearing additional comments. What it sounds like is that Northhumberland is basically another Ragland?

    Don't even read this. These are only my opinions. ... but if you want to...

    You know I don't want to beat this thing to death but let me continue.... Stewardship... hum .... I would like to think that a group of riders like say myself and 2 other buddies can put on a vest of some sort, and wave some riders down to stop and hand out some fliers and educate them on the issues. However, I have been to the Ganni unloading my bike while some Yahoo's are sitting beside their 4 x 4 ATV's blasting music like at some night club in the heavy metal district. These guys had shirts off muscles to boot, and tattoos. Hummm... ya I think I want to go up to them, me and my all of 145 lbs and let them know what they might be doing wrong.

    So really stewardship is nice but enforcement must accompany it or be a significant element of it, which Police or OPP are needed without question. Where does that take us? Raising money to hire OPP and Police to tell Dual Sport riders who are legal to ride on Boundary road that they are not allowed to do so. Ya the roller is coming out big time here, and I like the colour of paint I am laying down... Benjamin Moore brand made in Canada. In all honesty I know I am going on the extreme side of things but the issue really is with Government and its lack of an ability or desire to associate with our Brand. Ya that is part our fault too. But when you go for a job interview for sure I would not want to gamble and let people know I ride Dirt, because it is more than likely that Mr, or Mrs interviewer is the same person in Northhumberland community that has a very nice cottage and really rather not hear anything about Dirt Bikes or Dual Sport or etc. and it is very likely that they are spearheading this move to have us out of there.

    If I don't write about the economy I have to rant about something else. I better stop here. :x Get ready for the big turn down in the TSX. It is only a matter of time. As soon as the numbers come out from the banks showing how many people are defaulting on loans it is bound to send Canada into real panic. The wave has not hit us yet. What ever I guess. :(
  8. Shawn Hall

    Shawn Hall Ride Organizer

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    See everyone at the open house. Should I ride my bike? :wink:
  9. Fat Tire Flyer

    Fat Tire Flyer Ride Organizer

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    From Toronto: 401 East to Cobourg.. Exit Hwy 45 North

    [​IMG]

    After Orange Motorsports Turn Right To "23 Community Center Road"


    [​IMG]
  10. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    If ya don't ride, at least bring the gear and helmet. :D
  11. DerekR

    DerekR ODSC-OFTR Member

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    I saw 3 bikes and a nice big orange KTM van in the parking lot while I was there this aft. Plus a lot of guys wearing moto jackets. We seemed to have a pretty good presence. The Northumberland Trail Rider guys were keeping our signing and commenting effort organized.
  12. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Lot's of OFTR guys there today. Very good turnout of folks.

    In chatting with one fellow who lives beside the NTH Forest and is sick of the loud bikes and what he felt were inconsiderate riders. Can't really blame him for being upset. Also realized that he has no way of knowing the difference of who the operator is, an OFTR member or a yahoo. They all look the same to him. He also had preconceptions that the OFTR is the same as any of the yahoos he feels are the problem. How would he know any difference.
    On the way home, I realized that we not only have to educate other riders(as we currently do), but may have to look into implementing educational 'open houses' (or something similar)for the general public in the areas we operate.
  13. walt

    walt Limited User

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    This is exactly what I was attempting to get across when writing in the Bethany forum, wondering why we are limiting our actions and routes because people get their noses out of joint and complain. If we don't try and stand out as an alternative, a respectable user of the environment, we are cast as just another punk on a loud bike ripping it up. Only someone breaking the law hides. We have nothing to hide from, we can't try and hide from conflict because what we do is not on the same scope or scale as what the "greens" are complaining about. I too thought a bunch of people I witnessed at North Humberland were obnoxious, ripping it up on loud 2 stroke bikes and quads, riding without helmets ect... no wonder they are trying (or have) closed the forest because after watching the antics for 1/2 an hour I had enough.

    If there is some way to get out in the spotlight and educate others that not all users are the same would help others like us and our cause

    again just my 2 cents, well that would now be 4

    Walter
  14. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Interestingly enough, the same fellow also felt strongly that the forest should only be available to local users and that people that don't live in the immediate area shouldn't have access to the forest. :roll:
    Now, I'm 'sure' that this fella is one that 'eats his own cooking' so to speak and has never went fishing or boating in any of the lakes & rivers outside of Northumberland, visited the many attractions in Toronto, Ottawa (or any other city), went to Niagara Falls, The Rocky Mountains ....well you get the picture.

    I live in an Agricultural intensive community. Maybe we should cut some of these folks in Northumberland off from all the farming production in the rest of North America......They apparently don't need or want us, probably don't need our food either....?
  15. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    We need to initiate our own PPR (Positive Public Relations) program if we want to look good in the eyes of the public. As I've mentioned in the past, every ride should be a CHARITY ride! Every rider should bring non-perishable goods and a donation should be made to the local food bank in the area of the ride. Or charge a small fee to raise money for a local charity or non-profit group.

    Call the local paper and have a pic of a group of riders, still in their gear, handing over a cheque or truck full of food. Use the media to put a positive spin on our club.
  16. SteveP

    SteveP Ride Organizer

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    Nice Smitty! You can be the head of the PPR Campaign! I like the idea. We are doing something similar at my office.
  17. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    Ya maybe he has never used Pearson Airport either. I know that I have about 50% of their plans flying over my house, and I hear them. It is really more annoying than their plight. If I were to complain to someone about this, they would ask me why I bought my house there?

    It kind of works 3 ways I guess. Ya I see this Northhumberland guys point, he has to see my point and we have to compromise.
  18. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    We can't win this war on our own, we need to get others on our side also. If we can get local businesses that we support, and some non-profit organizations, it sure would help.
  19. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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  20. SteveP

    SteveP Ride Organizer

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    As the auther Valerie Macdonald is at least willing to cover our side of the story, she should be placed in our "rolodex" of ORV friendly reporters. Maybe she should be contacted for an "exclusive" of our side of the story?? Steve