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  1. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    When are we going to buy our own land? Owned by OFTR and or ODSC? Link these pieces of land together with road and that is the end of the story. No reporting needed.

    Also, as the Northhumberland is closed off, more and more riders will migrate to Ganni. Generally speaking the more riders in an area the more irate greens get (more concentration of noise, problem riders etc). Closing Northhumberland could be a strategic move toward getting us out of the Oak Ridges Moraine. Yes it is the Masons.
  2. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Larry-

    How about you pony up the $10,000,000 to get us started? That should purchase us about 2,000 acres of Moraine land.
  3. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Frankl - "You don't necessarily have to be a member (of any group) to use the trails,"

    As long as you don't ride a motorcycle I guess. Evidently these horses butts have no freakin' idea what the word 'compromise' means.

    It's looking a lot like the whole process was a total waste of everyone's time and a significant amount of the county’s money. Why in God's name did they even bother!!!! :x :evil:

    Well fornicate them. I'll have nothing to do with Northumberlnd county except maybe to pull over to the side of the road to relieve myself.
  4. warrent

    warrent ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Hello all, Warren here.
    First off I want to sincerely thank everyone who took the time to attend the Open House in Baltimore last Thursday. It was a long drive for many of you.
    This is appreciated by NTR membership and appreciated by me. I wasn't at the Open House, (as previously I had registered and paid to attend the NOHVCC Congress in Houston ), though Ken Hoeverman and I somewhat monitored the evenings events from our hotel room in Houston.
    No one seemed to have a handle on the numbers but my wife Lorna said she had to drive around the building to find a parking place.
    I have just spent two hours going through the Comment sheets (92) and Questionnaires (83). Some real good comments there and I wonder what the, "in favour of", stack of comment sheets might amount to.
    Interestingly the County staffs claim that "off-road motorcycle riders are much less likely to join clubs than other motorized groups", doesn’t ring out here as the 83 questionnaires I have just perused prove otherwise. Of the 83 questionnaires, 72 riders belonged to a club while 80 were willing to, if it were a requirement to ride in Northumberland Forest.

    We do have a plan of action which we will be discussing in detail at our next club NTR club meeting, (1st Tuesday each month) and probably more info will follow.

    Again, Thank You.

    Warren Thaxter
  5. Yamahammer

    Yamahammer Limited User

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    I really find it so disappointing, that as a group suffereing prejudice, we would prejudice other groups. Some of you guys are just as bad as the greenies. There are good bikers, and bad bikers. There are good quads, and bad quads. And there are good 4x4 people, and bad ones. This is a battle of recreational vehicle users vs. the greenies. Don't let them devide and conquer.
  6. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    Not sure I agree with ya. I know from my own experience that when we were at Ganni unloading our bikes, guys came flying up the road where everyone know that there are cars parked, and they are on the gas like there is no tomorrow. Then they turn around and rip it back making dust and dirt and yes even mud go flying all over the place.

    Sorry if you think that the greens are making a divide and concur strategy, you are outright wrong. There has to be ethics rules to follow. That means that one can not just rip anywhere they feel like giving it throttle. But maybe that is the problem too... There should be signage indicating areas where you ride at your own pace, and there should be areas indicating that we have to ride with caution, and maybe even slower than usual. There should also be an understanding of what is the max speed limit we should be riding.... I have heard that in the Ganni it is 50 km/hr but that is just hearsay, I have never read anywhere this information (maybe someone can post a link).

    But after at the end of that day when those guys were ripping up and down in the parking area that even they were parked at; my buddy went up to the yahoos, and asked the guys to clean his truck that now had a good splash of mud on his trucks drivers seat (inside his truck there was mud many places). The situation was not nice.

    Just because we are off road doesn't mean there are not rules to follow. The problem is where are the rules? The rules should be well stated, and enforceable. Ya I have read Tread Lightly but that is not real, it is a good start to be real. When I say real, I mean that OPP, Ganni officials, Northhumberland People et all, are aware of the rules and the rules are enforceable. The rules can not be subjective. The rules are stated in black in white and the rules are the same everywhere or if not the same very close to being the same.

    Best regards,
  7. Anthony Petti

    Anthony Petti Limited User

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    [-X Actually, most people enjoy OFF-road riding for ...the lack of rules. I know, a bit of an oxymoron considering the restrictions on where we can ride, or all the obstacles we've overcome to get there, but once your there... :D \:D/

    With that said, I do agree with rules to keep bikes quiet and slow moving through parking areas. I don't mind so much in the trails, as nature(the trees) will eventually slow ..or stop them #-o

    There's enough rules to abide by in society, when I go to the track or off-road riding, I don't want to have to worry about speed limits, etc. Keep enforcement in the parking areas, as that's where everything should be checked; not in the trails.

    Freedom baby(relatively speaking), yeah!
  8. Xhumeka

    Xhumeka Limited User

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    I witnessed the exact same situation at the Ganny - probably in the same parking lot as you. However the idiots I saw do this were on two wheels, not four. So I can see the point trying to be made - there are bad apples riding EVERY type of ORV.

    I happen to love offroading in jeeps, ATC's, AND bikes. However I try to tread lightly no matter what vehicle I am operating.
  9. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    OH yes sorry I was not clear and you are right those guys were two wheel guys causing the issue for me, not 4 wheelers.
  10. Xhumeka

    Xhumeka Limited User

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    Disclaimer - my avatar is a picture of me on a 2 stroke dirtbike on my OWN property, on a cash crop field that was about to be plowed!! I was just helping out ;) I would never rip up the earth like that on ANY trail system.
  11. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Given a speed limit of 50kph in the Ganny, that should be enough. If you can go faster than that in the single track, you should be racing GNCC or something like that. If you go faster than that in the parking lots or on the main 'fire' roads, you should be shot.
  12. Yamahammer

    Yamahammer Limited User

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    Then... how can you disagree with me? My point is just that I see comments from 2 wheeled guys saying "all the 4 wheelers should be banned because they are the ones causing problems" in the exact same thread where others are saying "it's not fair that the greenies label all bike riders as being hooligans." All groups have problem people, and responsible people, and unfortunately it's the responsible people who aren't being seen because... we aren't out there making noise.

    If a responsible trail user putts around in the forest and nobody is there to see it, do they really make a sound? That's the problem.

    We shouldn't be vilifying the truck guys, because they will be harder for the greenies to ban since we're talking about licensed street vehicles using legal road allowances in many cases. And we shouldn't be making enemies with the ATV groups, because they are MUCH bigger and powerful and organized than we are. We've already seen cases where they take control of a trail system for themselves, and ban 2 wheelers (because they see us all as hoodlums). We don't need more of that!
  13. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    Sorry I must have missed a very important point you yours I will quote here "There are good quads, and bad quads. And there are good 4x4 people, and bad ones. This is a battle of recreational vehicle users vs. the greenies. Don't let them devide and conquer." #-o

    ... I like you do not discriminate against the 4x4, Trucks, 2 wheels, Quad runners, ORV of any kind. My only point is that all those groups have to use the forests in a way that is responsible, which was your point too.. I just never read to the bottom of your post..

    Hey I think Quads are great, I think they are very fun, I would own one if I could afford to have a Quad and a bike. I just like the 2 wheel better that is all and of coarse I am on a budget. And well 4x4, hum... I guess there is a place for everyone, I don't mind those either, just that I don't do that. Sorry for the confusion, it sometimes happen from my side of things. #-o

    And also, I am coming to realize that some horse people don't mind us either. It is those open minded Horse people who allow their horses and themselves to get exposure to our groups. And it is those same riders and horses that get acclimatized to our bikes. I have mentioned a few years ago, that some horse riders have told me to not turn off my engine. Ya that is only a very few of them, and it perplexes me because it is such a shift away from what I alway do.... ie turn off the engine etc. It might only be a matter of time before each group comes to realize that we are all there for the same reason to enjoy the outdoors, in a social atmosphere, get some exercise, and leave tracks and not trash. Every group in for forest puts some sort of pressure on it, but it is sustainable, I have yet to see a forest die because of recreational use (it is an absurd concept to believe that the forest is dieing because of ORV, it is a lie to propagate that sentiment).

    I think the greatest threat to our activity is noise. Noise is capable of affecting many people in a negative way, and it is a subjective reaction. Some people love the sound of a reving 4T (Not me). But for sure an uncorked loud 4T or 2T, can be heard for miles throughout the forest, and this is definitely a TIME SPACE destruction of the forest, for some greens it would be probably be better to not even walk in the forest and hear that, to them it is likely equivalent to walking through the burnt forests of Australia (the ones that were leveled to the ground). When the Loud Uncorked offender is gone the destruction is gone. There is quiet. So really it is about using the 94 dba rating type setup for now, and who knows that might be pushed down to 50 dba rating in the future, or even 20 dba as electric ORV come to life or hybrid ORV's are manufactured. But again an old point of mine would be .... there has to be the rule the law, and enforcement by police, or OPP, or RCMP, or MTO or the Game Wardens.

    I really see that the government is the problem. They must enact rules, laws and have enforcement. It is not fair for them to just pass the No Motorized Vehicle by law in various places to deal with the issue. Unfortunately it is their approach so far.... Problem, solution = ban. Nice society of compromise 8-[ ?

    Best regards, sorry for the misunderstanding. sometimes I think I just like to see myself type... sorry for going on and on and on.

    Yes I do believe it is the masons.
  14. 400 KTM Pilot

    400 KTM Pilot Limited User

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    Speed limits in the Ganaraska:

    Motorized snow vehicles must not exceed 50 km. per hour. Other motorized vehicles must not exceed 40 km. per hour.

    http://www.grca.on.ca/ganfor.htm#offroad

    Paul
    OFTR rep to Ganaraska
  15. grahamm

    grahamm Ride Organizer

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    Glad I have a speedo that is visible now.... no excuses for me now... Know the rules and have the proper equipment :D
  16. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    That is really quite strange as even ATVs have more directional control, better braking and are more manoeuvrable than snowmobiles. Certainly off-road motorcycles would be a level or two better than ATVs.

    This winter Pat was out riding his TC250 on the rather formidable snow crust we got and out with him was this guy on one of those Skidoo Freestyle snowmobiles and Pat was literally able to run circles around it in its own element.

    It must be that the forrest has more users in the summer, or is it just ignorance again?

    In any case, 40 KPH is plenty for me.
  17. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    I have to say that a speed limit of 40 km/hr is a bit slow. Ya in the single track stuff like W1 to even hit 20 km/hr is hard and I hum around 15 km/hr and max at about 20 just for split seconds and for sure I sit about the 10 km/hr mark often too.

    But 40 km/hr in the wide trails? That really is a bit low. But rules are rules I guess, and my whole arguement is enforcing rules... So 40 km/hr it is. But where is the enforcement? That part of it is a joke. All that would be needed is an OPP or other type officer with an old school radar gun at the Ganni and he/she would be able to make a pensionable amount of money in one day. OH but maybe he can't give tickets in a not road. HUM again rules, laws enforcement. We are not the problem the governments lack of attention to our industry is.

    40 km/hr eh.. interesting... I will stay at the back of the pack then for sure, even behind the novices.
  18. Bill

    Bill Limited User

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    Did not know where to post this so I thought this spot was just as good as any. Saw this on the Yahoo news..

    WINNIPEG - Manitoba should ban ATVs from some Crown land, charge drivers for environmental damage and seize their wheels if they don't comply.
    Those are some of the recommendations from an internal report commissioned by the government on all-terrain vehicles. The number of ATVs has exploded in Manitoba, nearly doubling in the last five years.
    The government did an internal review of ATVs last summer following several multimillion-dollar forest fires blamed on hot debris from ATV mufflers.
    The report, obtained by The Canadian Press, says all Crown land should be reviewed to determine where to ban ATVs and suggests drivers pay up if they cause any damage.
    It also recommends amending the law so officials can confiscate ATVs from irresponsible drivers.

    Just thought this was kinda interesting.
  19. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    I wonder if dirt bikes would still be allowed????
  20. BinzerBob

    BinzerBob Limited User

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    Yes this is just the beginning. You know if you talk to someone older than ourselves (say 60ish) they will tell you they rode bikes almost everywhere ... there where many places to ride. Now if it was legal to ride there in those times, I would argue absolutely yes .... because there were no signs on the contrary and there was absolutely no enforcement to prevent or discourage people from riding. How else to define a place that is legal to ride? Now a days there might be more of an understanding... but back in 1997 I heard about Northhumberland... I went there, I saw no signs I saw no enforcement indicating not to ride there, and so I rode there (it happened to have been legal just by chance really). But you could not imagine how many times I would stop and talk to someone there at Northhumberland and I would ask them... are we allowed to ride here... NO ONE Knew the answer!!! (anyway just trying to define how it must have been in say the old day and kind of relating it to relatively not the old days in 1997).

    Not so many people lived near those riding places and so it was ok, really it was ok. There was no question. But as population grew and more people moved near to various areas for sure bylaws were enacted to stop riding.

    Like I mentioned in another post, our sport might have been one of the fastest growing motor sports in Canada in these relatively recent times.... I say might because I don't know for sure, but from what I read about motorcycle sales and more specifically about Dual Sport bikes, it seems that our class has outperformed the other type of motorcycle sales... maybe someone can substantiate this or discredit it... Bottom line.... we enjoyed places to ride because there were relatively few of us to the places that we can ride. Not anymore. The places we ride are becoming saturated, and more people GREENies are moving close to those areas we ride.

    One Plus one is 2... I am only making what I believe to be logical deductions. But time will tell. I don't like the logic, and I wish I could come up with some other rational, or way of thinking. But being optimistic doesn't affect the outcome of reality or the way it is. One can believe what ever they want but there is a reality that exists, a truth of the matter. Yes for sure we have to be optimistic and hope for the best and that optimism maybe can invoke some positive change for us, but past experience doesn't point to that conclusion.

    If they did take that stand in WINNIPEG - Manitoba it will set a president for others to follow or for others to argue that the issues in Ontario should follow a similar outcome.

    Plan B

    and or

    Plan C