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  1. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    This past weekend I rode up to Miller Lake just south of Tobermory. I created 3 routes in BaseCamp using all back roads and gravel roads to travel up there. It was a very pleasant trip (some amazing small gravel roads) other than the weather. On my way back down I was in for a nasty surprise as I was unable to reverse my routes and had not save my tracks.

    I've done a little research into the 78s and although the manual tells you how to reverse the routes, it seems only routes actually created on the unit can be reversed. Uploaded routes from BaseCamp does not give you the option to reverse the route in the unit. I sent an email to GPS city and they have confirmed that the routes can only be reversed in BaseCamp and than uploaded to the unit.

    I find this hard to believe as even my old Garmin eTrex unit could reverse uploaded routes.

    I'm wondering if others have the same unit and come across this issue?

    Hardy
  2. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    If you use BaseCamp to transfer your route to the 78S, then you MUST first set the Activity to "Direct Routing" before you transfer it, despite how you created it or plan to use it on the GPS.

    You can then Reverse it and/or navigate with it in "Follow Roads" mode.

    Bob
  3. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Hi Bob

    Many thanks for your advise.

    I have also researched Garmin's forum and found others having this issue with the same unit. It was suggested there to create a duplicate route (not a copy) and than invert it in BaseCamp after which they can be uploaded to the 78s. I have tried it and it does work, but you now have basically two copies of the same route on the Garmin unit, one to the destination and the other one back.

    On another note I have also been corresponding with Garmin support and they have asked me to download "HomePort". This software is very similar to BaseCamp but designed for marine gps units such as my 78s. Garmin has mentioned there should be no issue if I create my routes in HomePort and upload them to my unit. I have just started to play around with HomePort a little today and so far it functions exactly like BaseCamp. It automatically is using the BackRoads mapping software.

    I'm going to import some of my routes from BaseCamp into HomePort and than upload them into the 78s to see I it will give me the option to reverse the routes there.

    Will let you know.
    Hardy
  4. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    Hi hardy
    The problem is BaseCamp and the way it transfers routes to 62/64/87 Series, Montana, Oregon, etc. Mapsource (which I still use) transfers the routes to my Montana and 64 that are reversable on the GPS, but Mapsource always uses the same GPX filename so you need to rename it on the GPS or it will be overwritten by the next Route you send over.

    I just installed HomePort and it's a stripped down version of BaseCamp. Because it's a Marine program it doesn't have different Routing types - Faster, Shorter, Direct, etc. Boats navigate point to point so all it's routes are by default in "Direct" routing mode.

    Perhaps it just sends your route as a Direct (straight line route) route and hence is able to be Reversed.

    Bob
  5. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Bob

    You mention that the I must set the activity to "Direct Routing" before transfering the routes to my 78s. Do I set this in BaseCamp or do I set the 78s to direct routing?

    Hardy
  6. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    When this issue first came up a few years back, it was recommended that BaseCamp must be set to "Direct" routing activity, and then Send the route to your GPS. I actually never had the issue as I always used Mapsource, even though Garmin said you must use BaseCamp.

    Not sure what BaseCamp and/or the GPS does during the transfer process, but this was a big item with new Montana users, and Dan Townley on the ADVrider "New Montana" thread posted that workaround.

    As this was a few years back, Garmin may have made some changes in BaseCamp and/or GPS firmware to fix this issue.

    If you are still having an issue, send me your GPX file with the affected routes, and I'll do a few tests to see what is going on.

    Bob
  7. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    I have tried out the Garmin's Homeport app and you are correct. It's merely a scaled down version of BaseCamp and it does not help the issue at hand (frankly I find it useless compared to BaseCamp) .

    So far the only remedy seems to be as mentioned above, duplicating the routes, inverting them in BaseCamp and than uploading to the 78s. I end up with 2 copies of the same route on the 78s which I rename route up and route down , one to the destination and the other back from destination to the starting point. This seems to work fine for me.

    I will send you the routes to see if you are able resolve anything?

    Thanks for your help Bob, its very much appreciated.

    Hardy
  8. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    I tried uploading your routes to my 62S from BaseCamp and from Mapsource. Here's what I found:

    BaseCamp: I uploaded the file to the 62S in the form you sent it (Follow Roads routing - Fastest) and I was unable to Edit or Reverse it. When I set the Routing to Direct in BaseCamp, recalculated the route, and then sent it to the 62S I got the same result. There is no Edit or Reverse option.

    87.jpg

    Mapsource: I uploaded the file to the 62S in the form you sent it (Follow Roads routing - Fastest) and I was unable to Edit or Reverse it. Same result as with BaseCamp.

    When I set the routing method to "Use Direct Routes" in Mapsource - Edit/Preferences/Routing - then Recalulated and then sent it to the GPS, I got additional options in the Trip Planner.

    100.jpg


    I don't know why BaseCamp is different (other than I'm sure it started life as a 3rd party software and Garmin purchased the company) but that's the way it seems to do it. I continued to use Mapsource way after Garmin discontinued it andsaid BaseCamp was needed for all the Outdoor GPS models after the Colorado.

    I only switched to BaseCamp as my main program since I got a new automotive GPS (Garmin SmartDrive 50LMTHD) that has features not available in my older GPS, so I'm not that familiar with it yet. However, I did notice that when I try to reset your Routes to DIRECT and then Recalculate, they don't actually change shape - they still follow the roads. When I look at Route Properties, there are the original waypoints you created PLUS the additional "follow roads" points. I cannot get rid of these Follow Roads points.

    This doesn't happen in Mapsource. Your routes recalculate correctly when set to Follow Roads or Direct Routing.

    Only solution I can see is to use Mapsource to create your Follow Roads route, and if you want to Reverse them in your GPS, set Mapsource Routing to DIRECT and recalculate the route BEFORE sending it to the GPS. Be careful your route doesn't change due to insufficient waypoints. Before GPS had follow roads routing (around 2000) we only had "Navigate" which was waypoint-to-waypoint routing (or Direct, as they now call it). We always put waypoints at every turnoff to force the route we wanted. It's easy to use too few waypoints and still see the route you want on the computer, but on the GPS it can be different as it's not always possibly to set your GPS to exactly match the PC software routing options.

    Remember that the 50 point limit you encounter on the GPS route is for FOLLOW ROADS. The Direct Route waypoint limit is usually about 250. This is why many riders get a "Too many waypoints" Error when loading a Dual Sport GPX file - their GPS defaults to Follow Roads- Fastest and hits the limit. All Dual Sport rides need Direct Routing as (hopefully) they use some roads/trails which aren't on your GPS.

    Hope this solves your problem.

    Bob
  9. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Hi Bob

    I'm going to download Mapsource and create a route using direct and than upload to the 78s to see if it offers reverse routing. As you mention above I will have to place waypoints for every turn and when finished check route properties to make sure I'm within the 250 limit.

    I'm curious to see if Mapsource will function with the 78s.

    Many thanks for your help and input here.

    Hardy
  10. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    Mapsource will function with your 78S but you need to rename the file it creates whenever you transfer data from your PC to your GPS.

    Newer GPS usually allow more maps and GPX files to be transferred than the "Mapsource-era GPS" allow. Each transfer from Mapsource will use the same filename so you will overwrite the previous data. It's easy to workaround.

    If you transfer a Mapset from Mapsource to your GPS it will be named gmapsupp.img. Simply rename it to MyMap{or something}.img so it isn't overwritten by the next map transfer. Warning: If you already have maps on your GPS, rename the existing gmapsupp.img before transferring the new map.

    If you transfer routes, tracks or waypoints, a GPX file will be created in the \Garmin\GPX folder on your GPS - usually named userdata.gpx - so rename it before transferring more data.

    BTW, if your route will only use roads that are on your GPS map, and you intend to use "Follow Roads" routing, then you don't need a waypoint at EVERY turnoff - only when there could be other choices of routing.

    Bob