Discussion in 'Land Use Issues, Where To Ride' started by amuzme, Feb 3, 2006.
Excellent job Ken!
Your the man now Ken :!: :!:
Hopefully Ken will go down in history as the man that saved all trail riders from sealing their own fate.
I would have liked to had my name attached to that for CKL, but the reigns are in far more skilled negotiating hands now.
I hand delivered one printed copy of the DRAFT recommendations to Conor Begley today. I'll have a copy for viewing at the ODSC AGM.
I was holding it back until they gave me a confirmed date to present.
FYI - gybman was instrumental in filling me in on CKL and provided many grammatical enhancements to the recommendations documents for all the Land Use issues. He also attended the CKL open house in person and the quoted comments in the Council/Mayor letters are from his notes.
I am getting a lot of help from anyone I ask. Our community has always been a reliable source for volunteers and I am very proud of how we always show up when asked.
Thanks for the recognition Ken, but I'm sure this issue would have been long dead in the polititions minds, especially if you had started even a couple weeks later than you did. A great comeback I must say.
Let me know if and when I can assist. (with the exception of the next week when I'll be riding in slightly warmer climes)
There has been excellent support from individuals and businesses to keep this going, but have the manufacturers been contacted? Its in their vested interest to help out. I'm listening to this motorcycle pod cast thing as I type and he claims that the MMIC says that dualsport sales are up 50% from the last stats.
All the manufacturers have been contacted directly and indirectly through other people. They haven't come back to me yet except Yamaha who wanted an amount.
MMIC was contacted as well and I haven't heard. Bigger organizations take longer to respond to this sort of thing.
LVDR, HORRA, NTR and OCMC have all done something. ODSC hasn't responded but perhaps they are waiting until the AGM tomorrow.
I have some good pledges from dealers but nothing in yet. The dealers that pledged were directly contacted by members who went to them.
Individuals are by far the most responsive with many personal cheques and there a few that have said they will be donating at the AGM.
Pledges and deposits are around $3000 which won't keep this going very long. A lot will depend on the major players and a grant that we are applying for.
Hi Ken, Will drop mine off at the AGM tomorrow.
THANK YOU!!! What else can I say!
Attached is a copy of tomorrow's agenda of the SORV.
I have a prepared presentation and a copy of our recommendations booklet with attachments for 20 people.
I will give you all an update tomorrow or Friday.
March 9 update
I attended the meeting on March 9 and presented to the SORV.
I will send the minutes when they arrive.
OFSC, OFATV (3), OPP (2), Township (3), Nottawasaga Conservation (1), G.Davis and a few more. I was presenting so I couldn’t take many notes.
There are a few areas of complaint where new houses have been built near existing trails and now they are complaining. I call this the “Airport Syndrome”
The presentation focused on this:
The OFTR is seeking an amendment to the proposed By-Law similar to Item #1 or #2 that includes Motorcycles.
We are demonstrably organized and are willing to enter into a usage agreement with the Township.
The Agenda was:
OFTR Mandate & History
Contributions from Events
Legalities and Land Use Agreements
If you would like a copy of the PPT, email me.
The reception to our recommendations was luke-warm and there were some challenging rebuttals. I don’t have a clear read on how amendments are made yet.
OPP – Daryl Grenville seems opposed, as they don’t see how they can enforce motorcycles even though he thinks they can handle ATV’s
OFSC – claims the ORV’s ruin the trails and they have to fix them and spend $12K to send bulldozers in each year. I challenged whether the dozers and the16ft wide paths might be the problem. I noted 3 areas where they have removed vegetation on hills and have caused erosion ruts. This got a little heated, in a calm way, until the County Administrator jumped in. He, OFSC, also spoke to me after the meeting and “sort of” apologized.
The OPP chimed in several times with several negative comments that I think I handled well enough. The way I read him was that his real problem is the budget cutbacks he is facing.
I had a long talk with John Broderick after the meeting and he said we did well and said that the OFATV faced the same resistance when they fist met with the SORV.
Part of my presentation is to illustrate the charitable donations generated in Simcoe and to explain our history of use in the County of almost 50 years. The county administrator was concerned about this year’s event and advised me that HORRA hasn’t asked for permission from them.
I indicated HORRA has applied to the county and we thought that was enough and she said it wasn’t. I then mentioned the By-Law hasn’t passed yet, and she said she “could pass it next week” and keep us out. The OPP guy affirmed his interest in keeping us off the road allowances.
Status: I don’t really know where we stand as there was no resolutions made. We have made our case and will need to see the results at the next meeting in three weeks.
I am concerned about the JK ride and will put together a plan of action with the HORRA guys.
In the meantime, the OFATV thinks we may want to start “Information Patrols” as soon as the snow melts as a pro-active measure. If you ride in the county this spring try to remember that we are under scrutiny and need to behave. I will be contacting OFATV to see what we can do to coordinate our efforts in regards to signs and patrols.
They will be watching for noise and evidence of ORV’s tearing up the trails while they are soft.
That’s all for now.
Thanks again Ken,
I'd like a copy of the PPT.
Sounds like you had a few immovable detractors. It’s so hard to change a mindset, especially when it comes from people with power like your councillor and the good officer.
I like the one about the “Airport Syndrome”. It reminds me of this Star reporter a few years back (Catharine Ford?) that went and bought some property up near Banff or Jasper and built a house. She then started complaining that the elk were eating her flowers.
Sent you the PPT Bill. ST also wants the slides.
This is a small victory for us. We needed to have the proposed by-law amended prior to going to council.
The next step is ensure the new by-law contains the permissions we are seeking.
There is an SORV meeting later in the month that will hopefully table a revised by-law that allows motorcycles with conditions similar to ATVs.
For those of you that sent in the Comment Forms you should be receiving a copy of the attached letter.
The Comment Forms and our strong attendance at the Open House were Major Factors in Springwater so congratulations and thanks to everyone that took some action.
March 31 Update
I attended the meeting on March 31 representing the OFTR
There are no minutes and no votes at this working group.
OFSC, OFATV (3), OPP (0), Township (3), Nottawasaga Conservation (1), G.Davis
Here are my notes:
Conor Begley (CB) - Research & Policy Analyst - The Township of Springwater
(CB) opened the meeting by stating they could not find any other municipalities that had shared use agreements in place.
KH – pointed out that there are 3 mentioned in the OFTR submission that was presented at the last SORV. Two of the examples had reference letters and contact names.
Others mentioned were Town of Innisfil and Town of Blue Mountains although the latter has been abandoned.
The “Draft for Criteria for Motorized Trail Consideration” was discussed. The conversation seemed to consider Motorized use as a new concept rather than an existing one.
Ray (OFSC) was concerned that new homes are encroaching on the OFSC trails and they are quite concerned. I made this point at the last SORV by stating that motorcycles have the longest history of use. He is also concerned about all the hard work they are doing with bulldozers and the “off-season” users are just wrecking everything. This guy is a real treat but the OFSC does get the most recognition since they have had an agreement in place longer than anyone. The residents do complain but they are satisfied with the OPP patrols and STOP patrols.
Agenda Item 1
It was noted by CB that the public submissions conveyed a concern with the previous draft by-law, which is why the council vote was delayed.
KH – pointed out that the published results of the submissions from the last SORV indicated that motorcycles are the most represented.
Agenda Item 2
A concerned resident has emailed the Township, after the deadline, and further complained about ORVs running on Rainbow Valley Road and Baseline Road.
Agenda Item 3
Was overlooked to address #4 and then we ran out of time.
Agenda Item 4
The Township staff is proposing a temporary ban of all motorized vehicles in the areas with the most complaints. One of the residents on Rainbow Valley Road calls them almost every day to complain, even when there is no traffic. You can read her email in the agenda.
They want the complaints to stop.
KH – suggested that they are not seeking alternate solutions to the problems. The residents want a ban and that is all they want to consider while the problems are Noise, Dust and Irresponsible users. They have already decided that we can have no effect through stewardship. This ban would include ATVs and snowmobiles as well so they are not happy either.
The OFTR prepared signage and handouts that we distributed at the SORV. Our intention is to post them in strategic areas and set up information patrols this weekend. I’ll post one here as well.
The Staff seemed impressed (surprised) that we were actually taking some action and has also called the OPP to patrol the areas as well for this weekend. (April 1)
Agenda Item 5
This became more of a GIS compatibility issue. The Township’s GIS software has some problems they are trying to resolve. I have already followed up with Simcoe County and sent them some sample files in different formats.
The GIS group is also acquiring a package called “Manifold” to help produce a consolidated map of all the trails.
Agenda Item 6
There were no OPP at the meeting.
Agenda Item 7
Nothing to update from the County except that they are moving forward with the SCPAC recommendation for conditional use of motorcycles.
Agenda Item 8
Next SORV meeting is April 13th.
Clinton Smout and Lino Zecco tried to attend the meeting. They both have extensive experience at public meetings and are local residents. They were asked to leave.
Immediately following the meeting I went out with John, Jim and Wolf, of the OFATV, to hang some posters and look at the Rainbow Valley/Baseline area where most of the complaints come from.
One of the local residents drove up to talk to us and we chatted for a couple of hours. His opinion is that we will never be able to change the behavior of the irresponsible riders and was happy to hear there would be a ban soon. Another resident drove up and yelled something like “I can’t wait until they close this F*CKING road to dirt bikes” and then drove away.
While we seem to have avoided a complete ban on all road allowance for now, we are not in good shape and the perception of our population is very bad in Simcoe County.
Unless the Township sees a definite change in the habits of Dirt Bikes we are in for a complete ban on the Road Allowances in Springwater Township. Without “linkage” to the Forests the County may even reconsider our use there.
I will be out with the OFATV this weekend handing out flyers and putting up posters in the main areas of concern. I will also solicit volunteers to do the same for the next couple of weekends. If you can volunteer anytime in April, please contact me.
Attention Riders in Simcoe County/Springwater Township
The Huronia West OPP will be present in the Hillsdale and Rainbow Valley Road / Baseline areas this weekend. The detachment is aware that the OFTR and OFATV will be conducting an education campaign, and the OPP have been asked to cooperate with your efforts.
Here is the Poster and Flyer we will be distributing.
The OFTR is also seeking volunteers to help with this. If you are availabe to help please contact me.
If you are free this weekend call me on my cellular 705-716-4600.
The township asked me for a report so I typed one up. The only thing missing is what I had for lunch.
We will need volunteers for a couple of hours at a time for the next few weeks. Contact me if you can help out.
The forests are still full of Ice and Snow so you would be in your cars.
FYI - Lunch was Kolbassa, Crackers, Pate and some cheese.....
Ken, we did see some a couple jeep types doing some trail cleanup in the Raglan area this weekend (maybe the sled club, don't know). Nice to see... but this scene was too much, and with the constant stream of loud 4x4's going thru the local residential area on the way out, it won't be long before we hear more on this. I recon about 300 people there.
Weekend Patrols - Comment from a resident
I got this from the Township today.
Only one word. BRILLIANT.
Good work Ken, thank you again. John
SORV April 12, 2006
I have the agenda for tomorrow and it looks pretty good.
There is a compliment letter from a local resident.
A review of multi-use agreements in 7 areas that includes GRCA, Limerick, Niagara, and Haliburton.
A new Draft Criteria for Motorized Trail Use that we can live with.
A new recommendation that will go to council on the 18th that we like.
The township has asked the SORV to avoid reporting agendas to the public and our members as a courtesy until after items are resolved so I am holding off the details until it goes to council meeting which I will attend.
There are a couple of new residential areas to route around but it looks like we made really made progress here.
Separate names with a comma.