Discussion in 'Land Use Issues, Where To Ride' started by RatchRacing, Oct 26, 2010.
I'll be there Saturday. Hopefully I can bring a couple of guys with me too.
Geez, I will try and make this, I think Rudy might be going he said.
For what it's worth I see Ken H has taken legal action in the Halliburton case....I'm so tired of this BS( I don't like being pushed around!). I threw Ken a few bucks to his legal fund...maybe if we win the lottomax, we can fund all the battles that we could be fighting if we had money behind us. Granola eatin, horse ridin, flower pickin' pr$cks!
Hey wait a minute, I ride horses and come to think of it, I like granola! :?
are you getting us kicked out of forests too?
Actually when I was down at St. Williams they were talking about totally booting out the horsey people altogether.
"Invasive species" issue. (Seeds in horse poop.)
What could be more natural and organic than poop? :roll: #-o :lol:
yea i heard the poop thing too. My understanding is when hiking you need to wear shoes with special non marking tread and pee in a bag that you have to carry out. Yup , no such thing as going too far :?
Whoa Steve, this is Ontario and there will be no flower picking allowed [-X
The only suitable passtime is to sit on the couch watching overpriced satellite TV and looking out the window at "nature".... but don't go outside, you might disturb the fragile life growing on that cheeseburger wrapper thats been laying in the storm drain for a month :wink:
I'm not sure what time I'll be there but hopefully I see you. I'm not even sure I want to waste my time on those @$$holes when I could be out riding instead.
For those that are attending, please sign the ledger, and denote OFTR member please. Steve
I went to the open house and I will try to relate what I was told
I was the first one there along with another ODSC member( I believe his name was Bill) from Cambridge. We introduced ourselves and explained why we were there; Bill, being an Ecologist, was there to understand their logic in closeing such a large area to motorized traffic only, and to offer advice to the organizing committie. I was there to find out why I could not ride in certain areas anymore and what happend to our single track.
Where the problem lies is that the area is now designated as a reserve which changes the allowable usage of the land. This is a result of new areas being found in the eastern section which contain endangered species.
So to start with, every trail east of the log pile or main parking area is CLOSED to all motorized traffic. North of the log pile up the trail to the paved road and east is CLOSED to all motorized traffic. The three main trails running north/south in the remaining area, one of these being the log pile trail, are open plus the one other trail that runs north/south but not as direct as the others. Three east/west trails still remain plus a small circle by the log pile. Thats it.
Our discussion lasted for two hours with both sides explaining their facts, theirs being based on saving the area from destruction and ours being coexistance with everyone working together keeping and sharing our trails.
I asked why our single track was wiped out first along with all of the other pertinent questions that we all have and they replied always the same, the rules have changed.
In the end they said that this plan that they have presented has been adopted by the MNR and this is a five year plan which they may adjust slightly but it is here to stay. The open house free for all at St Williams has come to an end, period.
Sad,Sad,Sad. I can`t believe it. It has now, for me, become a place to pass through.
As far as turkey point goes, there is one large main trail loop plus a few smaller trails that lead to or end at paved roads. The committie sated that they realize that most of the usage at Turkey Point is motorized vehicles and they are willing to listen to suggestions to open more trails.
So thats it. If you want to hear more details of the discussion, mostly environmental issues, call me.
More MNR blah blah blah, lets see them enforce these "changed rules". Its still crown land owned by the people.
I rode there this summer with all these "changes" in effect. Still the same toothless hilly billy circus as before. Typical gangs of the helmet-less beer swilling idiots riding their "qwads" with the loudest pipe possible. Hell, they likely won't even know I'm in the singletrack, being quiet and quick and all.
Wouldn't cutting down a tree in a reserve be a no no? Shame on the MNR then. My photo evidence will be coming soon.
I'll bet that they put on an enforcement blitz there next spring.
The OPP I talked to who patrols the area especially noted the May 2-4 weekend was a problem for them down there. Tons of quads "mudding" in the east side of the forest, set up with coolers of beer and some camping out there at night. My guess is that they will attempt to crack down on this next year.
One MNR person told me "people (forest users, including bikes, quads and horse riders) are going to have to learn that this forest is not their personal playground."
It's sad that the group looking after St. Williams has shafted motorcyclists by shutting us out of the consultation process from the beginning...although they (of course) deny this. Environmental impact on the area could have been reduced and minimized. Trail riders could have become partners in species protection, monitoring and enforcement rather than branded as enemies and ignored.
Poor planning and management by St. Williams and the MNR, who are apparently blinded by ideology and puppets of the NCC.
I think the puppet status should be publicized.
Not worth wasting my time to go listen to them any more. I saved the gas money and gave it to Ken on Sunday for the legal fund.
St Williams = :deadhorse:
The MNR will soon realize (as other forests) that banning us "legal" dirt riders will not effect the off-road traffic much. The local yahoos with the 'crossers and quadtards dressed in their best sweats with a box o' beer strapped on the back, will continue to ride there.
Care the draft up a revealing letter? I can add my pictures to send the point home. I wonder if the NCC knows about the MNR's tree cutting spree and other general mis-practices in conservation.
NCC, MNR, SFWC = :finga:
The police that patrol St. Williams already know this. The cop told me that 70% of the problems they had were quads (no helmets, beer, riding double....) and the other 30% vas "local kids" on uninsured, unlicensed, loud "old CR125's." (Not that they all literally rode CR125's...but he was trying to get across they were mostly on ratty old MX bikes and arrived at St. Williams via local roads and fields.
Now...it's rather interesting to note that none of these issues (license/insurance/noise/safety) that the cops (and us) focus on seem to have played a significant part as factors in the assessment of how to manage the forest users. Species protection seems to be the be all and end all here. So perhaps the arguments we have been forwarding regarding licensing, insurance, noise, safety, trail impact of double vs single track...have fallen on deaf ears because we're talking "apples and oranges" here.... :shock:
The other thing which may be going on here could be quite Machiavellian. Concentrate all the users into a smaller area which will get "chewed" to crap and encourage frustrated people to bushwhack new trails (I predict that the existing single track in the west forest will soon be all bashed through by quads) then cite the resulting damage as the reason for banning motorized access altogether. Wouldn't surprise me in the least that this is someone's "grand plan" for St. Williams. All the while they'll say..."oh...we tried our hardest to accommodate motorized users...but they've proven that they just aren't responsible users....so now we have no alternative but to ban them all."
one the comment at the open was-
We asked the atv club if they wanted to police the riding area but they refused.
I think the only ones that should be policing is the OPP and the MNR not the trail user's
I asked about rotating useage between the North and South areas beause the equestrian rider I talked to said its getting grown in.
1>I did here the comment that we are somewhat the cause of the destruction due to ATV`s following our trails. Even though this comment came from the gentleman who seemed to relate he would rather deal with ATV clubs. They seem more responsible.
2> The MNR has approved one additional Officer to patrol the Norfolk County. He is to spend most of his time near St Williams unless other wise needed elsewhere. It was said that in all actuallity, he will really not be around that much.
#3> They also told us that the ATV guys are most willing to help patrol the trails. Discrepencies mean not organized so don`t expect anyone to really know for sure.
It's really unfortunate that many folks(like the one referred to here) are walking around with such naive and plain stupid & mis-informed ideas about this whole issue. It makes it worse when folks like that are given full weight in their views at these 'public' sessions.
Our fault because some nitwits bulldozed their way thru some singletrack? Good lord!:roll: :roll: The irony must be lost on him that the preferred 'more responsible' group (ATV's) are the ones bulldozing everything(along with the trucks). What other crimes committed by someone else does this joker think we should be responsible for?
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