1. ODSC rides are planned with specific Covid-19 restrictions
  1. Miker

    Miker Guest

    Call it Ontario Recreational Vehicle Association or something like that.

    We could join up with the Snowmobile and ATV, pool our money and volunteers to help out and share the area (unless environmentally sensitive..ie spring/fall)....

    Has this been suggested? I think we would have much more power having all three groups lobbying for land use.
  2. Husky Man

    Husky Man Ride Organizer

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    Miker,

    Yes, this has been suggested and it is actually somewhat in place. On a National level, the motorcycle and ATV manufacturers are funding all provincial ATV and off-road motorcycle federations with regard to land use issues. This includes our OFTR.

    Also, the National Coalition for Land Access and Stewardship, is a combination of all provincial federations of ATVs, MSVs and off-road motorcycles working on many fronts including land use issues.

    The wheels are turning in the right direction. Good things are coming.
  3. Magnum

    Magnum Limited User

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    That's good to know that the wheels are turning in the right direction! As a frequent reader of this excellent site/forum and a avid street rider this is the one issue that never made sense to me. I've been tedering on the fence of buying a dualsport/dirt bike for awhile cause I know the most fun is had in the dirt, but... For the size of Ontario and the amount of rural/forest land, it is absoulutly pathatic the lack of legal riding area's around. It seems to be the case of finding places to ride that either you get landowners ok or a place that nobody bothers you and finding out this information seems to require a secret code . The legal places seem to be getting less and less every year. ATV's seem to be allowed much more access and we all know about the excellent snowmobile trails throughout ontario(that's if it snows). The manufacturs should all wake up and unite to change this. If there's no place to ride, you won't sell many bikes!
    Anyway's, hope to be in the dirt sometime soon. I'm moving up to Bruce county shortly, any good riding areas up there?
  4. dilbert

    dilbert Limited User

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    Actually there is a group called the Recreational Vehical Association. They are a Motorhome and travel trailer group as those are known as 'RV's'. :D
  5. Steven Young

    Steven Young Limited User

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    While it is good to know we may be headed in the right direction, I will try and remain optomistic about working with other groups. In reality I would be really surprised it the OFSC(snowmoblie guys) will have anything to do with any other group. They have lots of $ and no real incentive to join anybody for their deal already exists and seems to be working well for them. They only seem to lose a trail because of us (bike guys) or ATV's using trails they have had permission for 25 + years.
    Check out http://www.trailpass.com in the eastern US states. They are selling passes to ride legal trail systems or properties. I don't know if this would be a way to go either but maybe its an option for us in the future.
  6. KnightRider

    KnightRider Limited User

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    I would be into that, yeah $75/year sucks but I would gladly pay it if I knew I always had a great choice in legal places to ride, I think one of the keys to sucess is we cant be selfish, we need to include ATV and other groups because of their $ and influence, And while snowmobiler's have nothing to gain, if the trails are secured they have nothing to loose, (especially if we can get some new trails opened for them to use too! alot of snowmobilers also ride quad and motorcycles! Anyways I am for any idea that gives us more places to ride and will help anyway I can.
  7. gybeman

    gybeman Limited User

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    While this OFSC thinking has been the norm in the past, I think there may be a change of heart going on now that the sled sales #'s are dwindling, and atv sales are flourishing. This is probably what is going on with the EOTA trail network which is largely sled based trails. I wouldn't complain about a $75 trail pass (in the US). Last years ontario trail passes were (i think) $180 and $210 if you waited until after Dec 1 to buy... and that is for a season that lasts weeks nowadays, not months.
  8. Willys

    Willys Limited User

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    OK...this is probably going to upset some of you guys here...but here goes??...I have been off-roading for 25 plus years all over Ontario...started in jeeps then moved over to ATVs and now with you guys..???
    If you are interested in joining with the ATVers so to speak...they at the moment pay a yearly fee of $120 to use the trails in the Haliburton area and surrounding areas. This also includes the EOTA trail system as they both have agreed to recognize each others trail passes for the first time this year. The two organizations that are doing this are the Haliburton ATV ass.(HATVA) and the EOTA. We have been having endless problems with the OFSC and their hatred of the ATVers in the past and seem to be slowly winning them over, I think mainly due to the fact that many of them do now own both sleds and ATVs. But it has been a nightmare getting them to see our side of things.
    BUT... We need all motorized sports join together and fight for the rights to use crown land trails because soon we and all motorized sports will be banned off of them!!!
    You need land owner insurance policies to protect the land owner from law suits from people who hurt themselves while riding on their property. This includes the Government!!!! Hense the crown land trails will soon be off limits too!!!

    You guys who ever you are who are incharge of the organization end of things should try and talk to the HATVA and see if you can join with them if their insurance policy will allow it or not...They are a good bunch of guys personally. I have know some of them for decades...! lol man I'm getting old!!!! lol

    There is also another organization called the OFATV...these guys have one goal and don't see us, dual sport bikes or trail bikes in their long term plan at all!!!!

    So if I were you guys..?? Maybe it would be a good idea to ask and look into the HATVA and see if it is at all possible to align yourselves with them or maybe they too aren't interested in it either????

    They have already aligned themselves with the EOTA and ATVONT. to make a 3 strong alliance . That is something that us ATVers have been asking for for years and this is the first year that it has been done...due to the fact that the OFATV and the HATVA has split up. The OFATV weren't interested in any type of alliance with anyone...just to be the top dog and I think it has been their weakest point. I also think that they will be dying a slow death soon because of it!

    But please check out the HATVA and ask for Mark Coles and say Jonathan sent you!!! He may run for the hills but you never know??? lol

    We as Motorized sports need to stick together or else!!! IMO!!!

    The big problem is the jump from $40 per year to $120...that alone will probably kill off most of your members!!! It is still the thorn in the sides of the average ATVer who has always been riding for free!!

    You need the Ins. policy though!! and that is what the majority of the huge cost is for!!

    Good luck!!
  9. amuzme

    amuzme Limited User

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    Sorry I did not see this post sooner. I realize this is a public forum but there is nothing here that is a secret so here you go:

    First of all we have a provincial organization for Ontario that contains all Ontario trail users called the Ontario Trails Council (OTC). The OFTR sits on the executive board and I am the treasurer. The OTC works on issues that affect trail use in general and has the Ministry of Health Promotion (MHP) as the lead ministry. The OTC has received grants of around $350,000 this year. Non-Motorized trail activities do get more recognition but they do have a larger population, in theory anyways. If you are an OFTR member than your interests are heard in provincial trail issues at OTC meetings.

    Off Road Motorcycling is recognized as a heart healthy activity in the Ontario Trails Strategy of the MHP so we are able to apply for funding from them. The OFTR is currently working on a few ideas with this ministry. The MHP mandate is to reduce obesity and overweight Ontarians through physical activity to reduce Heart Disease, Stroke and Type II Diabetes.

    Our main ministry for funds right now seems to be the Ministry of Transportation (MTO) and we are working with them on a Safety and Education program for 2007. We are also trying to “Re-Brand” ourselves away from the current public prejudices.

    The NCLAS (in Al's post) met last year in Calgary and we sent Al to represent our sport. Al’s work resulted in the MMIC sustaining grant we received this year and a sustaining plan from the manufacturers to keep provincial federations going to address land use issues nation wide for at least 5 years. The OFTR may apply for up $100,000 for programs each year that advance our sport in Ontario. They also provide assistance for salaries and travel. The NCLAS is now disbanded as far as I know since it acheived it's mandate and has been replaced by this new funding model. The OFTR will provide a complete explanation at the AGM. (Jump in here Al if I am mistaken)

    As for working with the OFSC and the ATV groups, this is done at the provincial level via the OTC and again at the Municipal Level by the OFTR and the local club when there is a real land use concern. The OFSC representative from the OTC has put forth a bill to remove the right to sue on trails to the Provincial Legislature . This is big but will take some time.

    We don’t need to fight for the right to use Crown Land, it is already ours. Associations can not charge you to use it. The HATVA pass provides access to non-Crown land, like the rail trail and private property; otherwise you don’t need a pass. That was made very clear at a recent meeting in Haliburton.

    Motorcycles will need a trail pass for 2007 to ride in Simcoe County forests and the OFTR is working on the insurance. We have a provider that is working with us. As more municipalities find the need to ask for additional insurance, the pass will have more appeal. The OFTR intends to keep the cost to a minimum as we are non-profit and throwing money at the trails or building a large bank account from our rider’s wallets will eventually cause dissension. The could be the reason the ATVs have 3 provincial organizations.

    As the OFTR continues to be the voice of off road motorcycles without controversy then we remain unified. There has been a drastic increase in OFTR memberships already and we should see even more members by next year. Membership, for us, is more for unification rather than funding and we hope to keep that model.

    Our stakeholders have a real stake:
    MMIC – wants to continue selling the vehicles
    MHP – wants to keep us active so the Ministry of Health doesn’t need to deal with us due to inactive lifestyles
    MTO – wants our sport to be safe and give us a "place to play"
    MNR – works with the MHP to provide the land to get us active

    The OFTR interacts with these groups on a regular basis. All of these organizations have funds they will provide as we make a case for our sport. The wheels are turning and we have made great progress. 2007 looks very exciting!

    Ken Hoeverman
    Executive Director
    OFTR
  10. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    Good post - Ken

    Perhaps the body of that post should be made into a 'sticky' because there is a lot of info in it that answers a lot of peoples' questions.

    BJ
  11. Miker

    Miker Guest

    Yes, thanks Ken I appreciate the information from you and others. I'm glad that steps are being taken. It would be nice to see one LARGE group so that we had a solid voice.
  12. BillO

    BillO Limited User

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    Why do we need to fork over MORE money to the insurance companies?

    IMO, even talking about this sort of thing is going to start wheels turning in the wrong minds. What we have to fight for is legislation that makes it impossible to sue volunteer landowners, the government included.

    I’m not saying that we don’t need to carry insurance just as we do right now. However, the land owners should not have worry about the possibility of being dragged into court just because they let people ride on their property. Further, insurance companies should not be the benefactors of this when all it takes is the stroke of a pen to eliminate the problem entirely.
  13. Steven Young

    Steven Young Limited User

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    Exactly right Bill. This is how it is done in West Virginia and I think Pennsilvania and Michigan. THe very reasons the Hat-Field McCoy systems, Trail Pass in the North East and South East and The CCC of Michigan survive is because the governments of those states have seen fit to write legislation that makes it easier to volunteer and organize the trail users.
  14. Brian Helliwell

    Brian Helliwell ODSC Executive

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    Bill, Steven

    Take a look at the Protect Our Volunteers website, http://www.protectourvolunteers.ca/ . It's an initiative started by the OFSC and endorsed by all types of volunteer organizations, including the OFTR, seeking changes in legislation to protect volunteer workers. I don't know what the current status is of the Protect Our Volunteers intiative. I do agree that legislative changes need to be sought rather than just buying more insurance.

    Brian
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Im surprised no one has made a smart ass comment about rolling or smoking a "huge joint" effort...

    and I dont even touch the stuff!
  16. 3BeeJay3

    3BeeJay3 ODSC Past President

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    That would be Cheech and Chong, they belong to the 'Ontario Dual Stoned Club'.

    :wink: :lol:
  17. Willys

    Willys Limited User

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    I'm not saying I agree with the ins. charges in any way but, it is the way things are going unfortunately!! Especially in the sled and ATV world! I also think we need to pressure the government to stroke the pen and do away with the ability of people to sue the land owner for a person's own stupid actions!!! Trees don't kill people on their own....people run into trees!!! ETC!!!

    The only reason I said all of this is because of all the BS the guys in the ATV community are going through and they seem to be a much larger group in comparisn to the dual sport population, imo...??? Please correct me if I'm wrong here..

    The only people here to benefit with having to be insured up the wazzo is the insurance companies!! As if they don't make enough from us already!!!

    I know I pay way too much each month for insurance!!!
    What with 3 vehicles, my classic truck, 2 ATVs, boat, motorcycle, house, contents, life X2and mortgage ins to top it all off!!! Frigg'in thieves if you ask me!!
    They take it real easy but when it's their turn to pay out....Man do you need to have a good lawyer!!!

    We need to get together with every other motorized sport and non motorized sport who are required by law to have this insurance and demand a change!!!
  18. amuzme

    amuzme Limited User

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    The "One Voice" is the Ontario Trails Council and it is getting more recognition every day.

    I am the OTC Treasurer and I can tell you that we (OTC) are attracting the attention of the provincial ministries. Our recent budget provides almost $400K in programs to promote and protect trails for all uses and deals with broader issues such as removing the right to sue when using trails.

    The OFTR is also applying for several programs that will be funded through grants from stakeholders and government organizations. My role at the OTC has provided good insight into grant financing.

    The funding provided from land use donations last spring provided us the opportunity to address immediate issues and get organized. With the MMIC behind us we are looking ahead and developing long term plans to facilitate our sport for years to come.

    The OFTR AGM will be in January this year and we hope to have some exciting announcements if all goes well.

    Ken
  19. SKEL

    SKEL Limited User

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    Seriously.....no updates on this topic since 2006? #-o
  20. Randy_K

    Randy_K Limited User

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    Attend a OFTR meeting or talk to Ken. You would then understand what is going on. Not all things are posted for the world to see.